Sundeck in PNW?

[Mgtdguy]

New to the forum and to the PNW. We recently sold our sailboat and are now looking for a trawler (?). While searching I have noticed a number of sundeck boats and wondered if the lack of a cockpit on those in the 35'-38' range pose any particular problems with docking. I would appreciate any comments from owners of sundeck boats. In general, the more I look, the farther from finding THE boat I get! Trawlers, tugs, and some Tolly's are on the short list.

 

[Woodsong]

docking an aft cabin/sundeck style boat is not hard at all once you get the hang of it. Usually you need to be able to see on corner of the dock or a piling so that you can judge where you are but as long as you can see that you are good to go. If you are on a floating dock with no pilings or way to see what you are backing into you can always go bow first into the slip, have a spotter direct you from the aft deck, or even install a backup camera (rarely worth that expense though!!).

 

[Moonstruck]

Problems docking?* No.* Especially if you have help on the dock.* Without help on the dock line handling can prove problematic.* This is expecially true for older couples.** There are sundeck trawker style and cruiser style boats with aft cockpits.* This helps immensly in line handling.* The smallest I know of this type is the 38 Chris-Craft.* I think the others start about 40'.* If you are young and agile, have at it.* I delivered a new 36 Heritage East that an older couple had bought.* They didn't put 100 hrs. on it before selling. It was just too much for them.

That being said, they make a very efficient use of interior and outside deck space.

 

[Pineapple Girl]

we find our 35' sundeck in some ways easier to dock than our 42' sailboat was--you are driving from the middle so have a better sense of where the boat is under you (true of powerboats in general)--and in some ways harder--only easy place to get on and off is in the middle of the sides, more difficult from bow and much more difficult from stern due to height of sundeck.* But all in all it is not bad.* We do have twins which we find makes it more maneuverable in and out of the slip*than the sailboat was*but people with singles will tell you there is no difference if you know what you are doing.* Guess we don't.*

* we went for the sundeck based on the interior space and the quality and condition of the boat.*

 

[Besslb]

I don't think it's the lack of a cockpit that is challenging, but getting to know your new boat, and how she will react in any given wind and current situation.* After two years, Tom has gotten really good at docking our single screw trawler, both bow in and stern to.* And at the same time, I've gotten really good at line handling and giving verbal commands from the aft deck as we are backing in to any slip.***

It all gets easier with lots of practice!

*

 

[Moonstruck]

I knew that Jennifer and Bess would shoot me down, but they do it in such a nice way that I don't mind.

 

[Tom.B]

Bess is right... I am THAT good. ;-)

(not really... just lucky)

 

[Avista]

My wife and I dock our Sundeck quite easily. Only problem for us is with the hardtop over the sundeck, visibility can be a little challenging backing in to the slip, so it takes two, one on the controls and one spotter /line handler.

 

[Besslb]

GonzoF1 wrote:
Bess is right... I am THAT good. ;-)

(not really... just lucky)

*If you read between those lines, it says, I have a really great first mate.* ;-)

 

[Besslb]

Moonstruck wrote:
I knew that Jennifer and Bess would shoot me down, but they do it in such a nice way that I don't mind.

*Don, where there is a will, there is a way!!* We didn't know how to dock anything bigger than a ski boat when we bought Skinny Dippin'.* It's all about needing to dock, and not wanting to look like a douchebag doing it.*

-- Edited by Besslb on Wednesday 17th of August 2011 08:24:54 PM

 

[Flyguy1967]

Regardless of tri-cabin or sundeck, your going to want a line ready to go at a midship cleat with a bow and stern ready to deploy as well. Ideally, you will leave the boat at midships which means it's more about freeboard at the dock than is if your able get off at the stern.

We currently have a Ponderosa 42 (and have previously owned a Universal 36 and CHB 34 , as well as sailboats) and the enclosed sundeck does have some windage but with practice you get to know how to horse the beast (which is how we fondly refer to her as) around.

Simply cannot beat the space for the $$ with a sundeck.

Good luck in your search and feel free to PM me if you have any additional questions. We are in Olympia.

Brent

 

[Mgtdguy]

Thanks for the input. Our 30' sailboat was very easy to manage and this transition to power has us out of our element, for now. We have looked a few boats including a 36 Marine Trader sundeck trawler that was very nice. The owner said he had some problems docking the boat and he attributed his difficulty to the height of the sundeck. Sounds like it may not have been the boat at all. Thanks again to everyone..

 

[Tom.B]

Wow... It uncommon to find captain's willing to admit that their boat is difficult to dock. Like Bess was saying, a first mate that is aware of the possible shortcomings in handling and visibility EASILY overcome any docking problems. The layout of sundeck trawlers can't be beat if you want to be outdoors on the water (and why anyone want to always be cooped up in a pilot house all day when on the water in beyond my comprehension ;-) It must be a PNW thing). Still, sundecks are top-heavy and may be an issue up there since you don't have a nice quiet ICW to enjoy and find yourself in open water more that us Eastcoasters.

My only real advice is to not base you decision on docking. If sundeck trawlers are the most difficult to dock due to sight lines (and I cannot imagine that they are), and I have never docked anything more than a ski boat up until two years ago, then I am either some kind of freak-ish prodigy or it's not as hard as you think. I managed to be pretty good at it with little more than a single lesson and lots of practice. I can tell you from experience that it isn't a big deal.

 

[Larry H]

I would go look at a sundeck trawler and try to get down to the dock from the deck without a dock ladder. If you have problems with the climbing down while the boat is in a slip, that climb may get really difficult when docking when the boat is not tied up already.

 

[Mgtdguy]

Great advice, thanks. We have not excluded anything yet. Just making our list of what we must have, want to have, and won't have. Our sailboat was only listed for 4 days before it sold and we expected it would take months, not days, to sell. Our search for a new boat caught us less than well prepared.

 

[FlyWright]

One of these might help.

http://marinesolarlights.com/_landingloop.php

 

[Edelweiss]

PNW and sundeck used in the same sentence is difficult for me to comprehend this year!! I think I have only had the flybridge canvas off 5 or 6 days so far.

I've found after years of study that my best dockings occur when I have two trained dock jumpers on deck, who aren't afraid of leaping across that last 3 feet of water and can withstand the 4 foot drop to the dock. All done while I shout advice to them from the wheel house. LOL!! *

-- Edited by Edelweiss on Thursday 18th of August 2011 05:31:15 PM

 

[Moonstruck]

As I said, docking (putting the boat in the slip should not be a real problem.* Backing a Europa style into a slip from the flybridge probably has about the worst visibility.* I know I had one.* Backing in from the lower station was easy.* You basically can stand outside on the lower station and still reach the controls, so visibility should be OK.* Floating docks and fixed low docks are the problem.* A sundeck trawler is docked next to us on a floating dock.* It is no problem for them as when they come in they pull even with one of their two sets of boarding steps.* i say no probem for them, but I was helping put*a new radar pedestal up on my boat.* I backed into one set of steps, tripped fell backwards into the water, got cut up on barnacles, and lost $4,600.00 of hearing aids.* To much stuff on the finger piers.* I got my boat moved to the other side of their boat.*

The point is, if you are coming back to the same slip it is no problem.* You can set the slip up as you need it.* You can have steps, and leave lines on poles that you can reach out to get.* They are already tied to the dock.

The other thing to consider is deploying and retrieving a dinghy.* If you are young and agile, none of this is a problem.* Just try out different kinds of styles of boats to see which fits.

As has been said, it's hard to beat space for the dollar on a sundeck style boat.

 

[Nomad Willy]

I would think mooring lines would'nt be a problem. Even on little Willy I hang the lines where we can grab them easily while on the float. So the main act while making a landing would be to land the boat such that she is parallel to the float and against the float. Most all other matters should fall into place. My biggest concern over a sundeck would be the high CG and extreme windage. But I learned what a sundeck was on this forum and have never set foot on one. Are the Alaska State ferries considered a sundeck?

 

[bobofthenorth]

Docking difficulties are over rated in my opinion.* They were a huge concern for me when we bought Gray Hawk but I honestly believe that docking a direct drive ski boat is harder than docking a trawler, particularly a twin screw boat.* Obviously with the ski boat you can strongarm it into the dock but I'm talking about professionally putting it alongside the dock so that a passenger can quietly step ashore.* That's my goal with Gray Hawk every time - my instructions to SWMBO are "no leaping".* If I can't put the boat quietly alongside the dock then she doesn't go ashore.* And we would just as soon all the Helpful Henries on the dock stayed drinking their beer and watched us rather than getting in our way.

My only advice to the OP is to get some kind of radio communication between the helmsman and the line handler.* We have a set of Cruising Solution headsets which some people hate but we love.* They're not perfect but they are cheap and they work.* When we're getting close to the dock Marilyn sits down in the gangway and calls out the distance to the dock.* Its my job to bring the boat in and stop it against the floats so she can quietly step off.* I can't see the dock from the helm but I can tell whether I am moving ahead, back or sideways.* With her calling out the distance its pretty simple.* Its not very exciting but it works for us and I'm willing to bet with a little practice it will work for anybody.***

 

[Pineapple Girl]

I'm with Bob (and I think someone else said the same) there is no leaping on our boat.* We have walkie talkies though we don't always use them,*depends on the situation.*

We have had our boat coming up on one year and I am really impressed with how good Matt is at docking.* We were pulling in to a new to us slip the other day with a lot of current running through (on a river) and he was nervous, said he was afraid he'd hit the dock / roof supports.* He pulled the boat in perfectly, didn't touch a thing.* Sure we have scrapped into the dock a few times in the past 11 1/2 months but we maintain an "it is only fiberglass" attitude and keep calm.* Everything works out.*

I cannot imagine not having our sundeck, both for the awesome cabin below and the deck space above.* We absolutely love it.*

 

[markpierce]

Nevertheless, I appreciate a flat, 360-degree deck for ease of quick movement on the boat.

 

[sunchaser]

Walk around side decks with side doors and a cockpit*with *a transom door*are a safe easy way to get on and off. Sure, an athlete can do anything, but as we grow older the body appreciates easy boarding brought about by a good boat design.

Sundecks have fallen from popularity and virtually non existent as a new build*- *this makes them a good value and appealing. This past week while at Gibson's in BC, I noted several Tolly 44s with a cockpit and a 40 without. Both versions docked easily as awaiting helping hands were on the dock. In adverse PNW weather (common) and no helping hands, good deck and transom access is nice to have, but more $$.

For you responders located in the gulf climate or SoCal, think cloudy, foggy, dark, wet and cold dockings for the Admiral as you traverse the PNW. My wife and I have done both and her PNW desires are unequivocal - easy access.

Also in the PNW, fishing and crabbing are popular. A cockpit makes these chores much easier, in fact a must for the serious.

Lastly, Nordhavns, Flemings,*Offshores and similar rule the waves as new builds we lust after. It is impressive to watch the Admiral gleam as she easily steps off one of these at a boat show.


-- Edited by sunchaser on Friday 19th of August 2011 07:52:12 AM

 

[Edelweiss]

sunchaser wrote:
In adverse PNW weather (common) and no helping hands, good deck and transom access is nice to have, but more $$.

For you responders located in the gulf climate or SoCal, think cloudy, foggy, dark, wet and cold dockings for the Admiral as you traverse the PNW. ave done both and her PNW desires are unequivocal.

Also in the PNW, fishing and crabbing are popular. A cockpit makes these chores much easier, in fact a must for the serious.

Lastly, Nordhavns, Flemings,*Offshores and similar rule the waves as new builds we lust after. It is impressive to watch the Admiral gleam as she easily steps off one of these at a boat show.

--------------------------------------------------------------
All kidding aside, it really is nice to have helping hands when you're docking in strong winds and wet slippery docks in the PNW and a chance to pass on some boating skills to newer boaters.* We have a lot of guest boats on our dock. If I don't know the person I assume they are new to boating and I'm very careful, passing them the line only when at the dock and I point at the dock cleat while asking them to put a rap on it and hold the lines tail.* That keeps them from trying to pull the boat in and gives me a solid point on the dock to pull against with the engines if necessary. *They will sometimes say something like, "Wow. . . You made that look easy!" *and I respond pointing at them, "No, we made it easy." which often becomes a discussion on docking and line handling. *My son just shakes his head

*and says I should join the Coast Guard Aux.*
I also keep the bow line out of their reach.* Each boat has its own handling characteristics.* The 37' and larger Californians have the bow cleat too far forward, around the curve of the bow. *Hauling this line in tight, pins the bow against the dock and no amount of force will bring the stern in until it is released.

Tom

You are right, we have our share of foul weather, but you have to admit the crabbing is once again PHENOMENAL this year. *Oh, also bring the Admiral and come on down to Anacortes, I have a new 60' Nordhavn three slips away, that I think you might like. *I believe I heard they were asking around $3M for her and its blocking my view! **

Larry B
*

 

[Art]

Mgtdguy wrote:
New to the forum and to the PNW. We recently sold our sailboat and are now looking for a trawler (?). While searching I have noticed a number of sundeck boats and wondered if the lack of a cockpit on those in the 35'-38' range pose any particular problems with docking. I would appreciate any comments from owners of sundeck boats. In general, the more I look, the farther from finding THE boat I get! Trawlers, tugs, and some Tolly's are on the short list.
Hello Mgtdguy
*
Yep - Ain't boating FUN!* And, imho, power boating represents simple-easy-fun (especially in our 60s LOL).* Power boating offers reduced operational effort, more restricted waterway passage, and even some gunk-hole exploring, as well as considerable general relaxation time compared to sail boating; albeit maybe not as romantic (and inexpensive) as slipping through the open seas via cost free winds (cost free that is until sail, mast, rigging, and aux power source come into repair/replace needs).*
*
Most every item re docking and what type/style/model of midsized power boat is preferred has been covered in this thread.* Each to their own!* For comfort and cruising/hooking ease, I love twin screw tri cabin models (cockpit feature or not) with fly bridge and bimini tops covering both the bridge and sun deck... but no total enclosure, so that for low overhead locations like our covered slip, or severe wind conditions while in open areas, I can drop em into secure strapped down positions.* Of course PNW probably leans toward more personal weather protection needs than is required in our considerably protected SF Bay and Delta areas... but there can be height and high-wind restrictions with enclosures.* Of course, choosing the correct boat and features really is a compromise trade off!
*
My preferred boat makes (in order of appreciation): Tollycraft, Hatteras, Bertram, Uniflite... There are other great ones Ive noticed too, and many are represented on this forum / or in this thread.* Those I list are my current, recent, or years (some many decades) ago personal experiences! ****
*
Id simply like to add that Ive found piloting from any boats bridge, in any weather conditions, makes docking a slam-dunk as long as you have one hand aboard or on the dock... and of course appropriate lines readily in position for synching.*
*
The way I do it: Spring lines work wonders!* On both sides of a boat, each approx three feet (3) separated from exact amidships (six feet (6) total span between the two (2) spring line cleats), a boat can be easily initially affixed by any one or two of the spring lines from either side that is close to dock... therein holding the boat pretty much parallel with dock and making ready for the next sequence of motor actuated positioning (if necessary) and/or simply getting bow/stern lines attached.* In calm winds and slack tides docking using just the spring lines can be handled by a solo captain... as long as said Captain is nimble of joints and fleet of foot from bridge to spring line area to getting on the dock, with spring lines that are already well in position to easily work with.
*
Enjoy your upcoming Power Boat experience!

*- Art*********

*

*

 

[Moonstruck]

Art wrote:*
*
The way I do it: Spring lines work wonders!* On both sides of a boat, each approx three feet (3) separated from exact amidships (six feet (6) total span between the two (2) spring line cleats), a boat can be easily initially affixed by any one or two of the spring lines from either side that is close to dock... therein holding the boat pretty much parallel with dock and making ready for the next sequence of motor actuated positioning (if necessary) and/or simply getting bow/stern lines attached.* In calm winds and slack tides docking using just the spring lines can be handled by a solo captain... as long as said Captain is nimble of joints and fleet of foot from bridge to spring line area to getting on the dock, with spring lines that are already well in position to easily work with.
*
Enjoy your upcoming Power Boat experience!

*- Art*********

*

*

*Like you, Art, Moonstruck has two spring lines port and starboard coiled and secured on the rail.* They are usually the first lines ashore or on a piling.* As you say spring lines work wonders.* You should be able to see them in the accompaning photo.

*


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 01:16:02 PM

 

[bobofthenorth]

And ditto on the springline.* Once that's secured nothing else matters.* If some Helpful Henry is standing expectantly on the dock waiting to grab the bowline, Marilyn quietly directs him to the stern line where he can't do too much harm.* Once I had to reach out and slap away a Helpful's hands that were grabbing the stanchions and once I had to lecture a harbormaster about leaving the bowline the hell alone but usually some quiet direction keeps the dockside line handlers safely*out of the way without them ever realizing what is happening.

 

[Art]

Moonstruck wrote:Art wrote:*
*
The way I do it: Spring lines work wonders!* On both sides of a boat, each approx three feet (3) separated from exact amidships (six feet (6) total span between the two (2) spring line cleats), a boat can be easily initially affixed by any one or two of the spring lines from either side that is close to dock... therein holding the boat pretty much parallel with dock and making ready for the next sequence of motor actuated positioning (if necessary) and/or simply getting bow/stern lines attached.* In calm winds and slack tides docking using just the spring lines can be handled by a solo captain... as long as said Captain is nimble of joints and fleet of foot from bridge to spring line area to getting on the dock, with spring lines that are already well in position to easily work with.
*
Enjoy your upcoming Power Boat experience!

*- Art*********

*

*

*Like you, Art, Moonstruck has two spring lines port and starboard coiled and secured on the rail.* They are usually the first lines ashore or on a piling.* As you say spring lines work wonders.* You should be able to see them in the accompaning photo.

*



-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 21st of August 2011 01:16:02 PM

*

Howdy Moonstruck Don! - Correct O' Peel!!* Spring lines are usually my first upon docking and last upon leaving.* Also great for holding boat close abreast dock while loading, working-on, off loading... etc...

While*growing*up*on boats along New England's Atlantic coast; heres an old mariners saying*I learned regarding break of winters heavy snow and making ready to take to the water again:

"Spring has sprung, the waves have riz, wonder how your spring line is!"

Cheers! - Art

*

 

[Art]

bobofthenorth wrote:
And ditto on the springline.* Once that's secured nothing else matters.* If some Helpful Henry is standing expectantly on the dock waiting to grab the bowline, Marilyn quietly directs him to the stern line where he can't do too much harm.* Once I had to reach out and slap away a Helpful's hands that were grabbing the stanchions and once I had to lecture a harbormaster about leaving the bowline the hell alone but usually some quiet direction keeps the dockside line handlers safely*out of the way without them ever realizing what is happening.

*DITTO - Bob, I'm with you too

*- Art!

 

[surveyor1]

The extra entire room added to the boat with a covered, enclosed sundeck, like mine, is way more than worth the minor line handling issues.