USCG Captain's License

[courage121]

Ok, maybe I am wrong about the additional liablilty but here is what I found about a CDL license and it is possible the same applies to boaters with USCG licenses.


"What happens if a CDL driver gets in an accident?If you are found to be partially or entirely at fault, you may receive tickets as the result of your accident. It's important to remember that fines and license points tend to be stricter for CDL holders than for those driving a vehicle for personal use."

 

[psneeld]

Read that article I linked it describes what you are talking about and it isn't as automatic as a CDL issue.

Yes the USCG may come after your license...but it isn't often the case in my exoerience. My bet is that info was started when an instructor or two tried to put the fear into students and it became just another boating myth.

This from that linked article....

"If, however, the incident occurs in a recreational boating scenario, the Coast Guard has no jurisdiction over the license — and, as such, the incident will usually have no effect on the mariner’s license. There are limited exceptions to that rule, including cases where the mariner is found to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or where the incident is so egregious that the mariner is found to have acted incompetently."

 

[courage121]

Ok Guru, Let me ask this: if you don't intend to use the license, why incur the cost and time to get and maintain it. Are there benefits of having that make it worth getting? Other posts on this topic say it doesn't lower your insurance costs so what (if any) is the benefit of having it - other than bragging rights?

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

Ok Guru, Let me ask this: if you don't intend to use the license, why incur the cost and time to get and maintain it. Are there benefits of having that make it worth getting? Other posts on this topic say it doesn't lower your insurance costs so what (if any) is the benefit of having it - other than bragging rights?

Don't get one if you see no benefit to it. That is a different issue as "additional liability"
Nobody is trying to talk you into a license. Several people on here got licenses because of an additional level learning and personal satsifaction. They have no intention of using it for employment reasons.

 

[psneeld]

If you read the post by our insurance expert, he mentioned that having a license CAN be a big deal when it comes to insurance...not always but for some. Post #41.

Some people do it for bragging, many do it so they can charter, some do it to work other commercial operations.

 

[Pau Hana]

Ok Guru, Let me ask this: if you don't intend to use the license, why incur the cost and time to get and maintain it. Are there benefits of having that make it worth getting? Other posts on this topic say it doesn't lower your insurance costs so what (if any) is the benefit of having it - other than bragging rights?

Why incur the cost? There are many reasons (and bragging rights don't come into play).

Education, acquisition of knowledge, professionalism, being a student of your craft/hobby, safety, - shall I go on?

 

[BandB]

Not sure who your friends are...but sure would like to know where they found out there is added liability for having a license.

I might argue the opposite. If you are conscientious, you may do more to avoid problems and be able to articulate better why you did or did not do something if involved in an incident..

Not being licensed does not alleviate any boater from not knowing or following the rules/ laws.

I've heard that said by a few people regularly and never found any truth in it. Now, you do then have a license you can lose but that's the only difference in terms of liability.

 

[Andiamo2018]

License benefits

My experience getting a Masters license 11 years ago:

I took a two week course as a few others mentioned. The instructor did 'teach to the test' but also covered a great deal of 'real world' information. The class was roughly half recreational boaters and half fishermen. The fishermen in my class had the least amount of information going into the class and they were the only ones who had to go back and take the class again (part of the guaranteed to pass thing).

Also, again just my experience, 'professional' boaters like fishermen are the most likely to be doing things wrong, both legally and from a safety stand point. Taxi drivers are professional drivers but do you think they automatically are better drivers??

THE USCG CERTIFIED THE DAYS ON THE WATER and everything else needed for the license. The school just sent them my test results. Other than the test the USCG handles everything for the issuance of a credential.

6 years ago I renewed and was upped to 100gt near coastal automatically.

Last year I renewed and was got the same license.

The TWIC card is only for identification. It is actually easier to get than the license by a long shot - and I'm speaking of the bureaucratic hoops, not the test.

EVERYONE who gets a license takes more or less the same test (there are several versions but cover the same information).

Insurance:
Just last month my inlaws bought a boat and listing me as a license Captain / Master saved them over $500 a year! They had 5 years of boating experience listed but they are both under 36.

CAPTAIN - In my experience mostly from USCG hails is that 'skipper' is the person at the helm / driving the boat. A Captain is someone with a license. Bridge operators seem to always say 'Captain' though.


A few other things I've learned from the USCG.

ANY exchange of ANYTHING for getting on a boat requires a licensed Captain. If someone is asked to bring a bottle of wine for an afternoon sail / charter then you have to have a license. The USCG guy (in SF) said they only care about actual money unless there was a really substantial barter going on.

Splitting of costs is strictly limited. You can only split the actual expenses for the amount of time the boat is used. That means fuel or docking fees and that's it. And the boat owner has to pay the same amount as everyone else.

If anyone pays anything then it is a 'charter' that requires a license. And it also means a max of six guests if the boat is not inspected by the CG (which is a costly thing to get).

It is all pretty interesting and it makes sense if you get someone at the USCG to talk with you.

 

[Andiamo2018]

Oh yeah - your legal limit of alcohol consumption is LOWER than non-licensed people. There's that.

 

[BandB]

Why incur the cost? There are many reasons (and bragging rights don't come into play).

Education, acquisition of knowledge, professionalism, being a student of your craft/hobby, safety, - shall I go on?

Wifey B: As an educator myself, I value education for the reasons you mention. I think learning enriches a person. At least I feel better about myself as I learn new things, whatever they are. I'm a lifetime student. I'm proud of my education, from college to teacher to captain to learning business. Yes, it's all costly. Boating is not my profession but it's my biggest hobby. If my hobby was stamp collecting then I'd be doing everything I could to learn as much about it as I could.

I love tennis and basketball. We did get tennis lessons, again not to become pros but just to be better and to learn some things that would help us. I've practiced free throws and my three pointer a lot but I started with lessons from my hubby and I watched videos. I feel better when I play with younger people and shock them with my shooting. Maybe that's a bit of it too. I admit to a competitive nature. While a good sport and good loser, I always try to win. Hubby and I occasionally have played poker in casinos. I want to win every time. It's not to show off and it's not to prove anything to anyone else, but just to prove to myself that I can do it.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I love to learn. I learn about things that are of little value to me other than idle curiosity. My hubby first introduced me to looking for intellectual curiosity in employees. Learning is invigorating. Yes, it can be expensive and perhaps when I'm 90 or 100 I'll drop my captains license as not worth the cost, but as long as I spend 2/3 of my time boating in a normal year, I'll keep it.

Perhaps the only thing I like better than learning is teaching and helping others learn.

 

[psneeld]

My experience getting a Masters license 11 years ago:

I took a two week course as a few others mentioned. The instructor did 'teach to the test' but also covered a great deal of 'real world' information. The class was roughly half recreational boaters and half fishermen. The fishermen in my class had the least amount of information going into the class and they were the only ones who had to go back and take the class again (part of the guaranteed to pass thing).

Also, again just my experience, 'professional' boaters like fishermen are the most likely to be doing things wrong, both legally and from a safety stand point. Taxi drivers are professional drivers but do you think they automatically are better drivers??

THE USCG CERTIFIED THE DAYS ON THE WATER and everything else needed for the license. The school just sent them my test results. Other than the test the USCG handles everything for the issuance of a credential.

6 years ago I renewed and was upped to 100gt near coastal automatically.

Last year I renewed and was got the same license.

The TWIC card is only for identification. It is actually easier to get than the license by a long shot - and I'm speaking of the bureaucratic hoops, not the test.

EVERYONE who gets a license takes more or less the same test (there are several versions but cover the same information).

Insurance:
Just last month my inlaws bought a boat and listing me as a license Captain / Master saved them over $500 a year! They had 5 years of boating experience listed but they are both under 36.

CAPTAIN - In my experience mostly from USCG hails is that 'skipper' is the person at the helm / driving the boat. A Captain is someone with a license. Bridge operators seem to always say 'Captain' though.


A few other things I've learned from the USCG.

ANY exchange of ANYTHING for getting on a boat requires a licensed Captain. If someone is asked to bring a bottle of wine for an afternoon sail / charter then you have to have a license. The USCG guy (in SF) said they only care about actual money unless there was a really substantial barter going on.

Splitting of costs is strictly limited. You can only split the actual expenses for the amount of time the boat is used. That means fuel or docking fees and that's it. And the boat owner has to pay the same amount as everyone else.

If anyone pays anything then it is a 'charter' that requires a license. And it also means a max of six guests if the boat is not inspected by the CG (which is a costly thing to get).

It is all pretty interesting and it makes sense if you get someone at the USCG to talk with you.

Good post till you got to the part of splitting expenses.

The USCG has defined that more clearly in the last decade or so.

If the sharing of expenses is not recognized up front for requirement of carriage, then it isn't likely a charter requiring a license to carry passengers.

 

[CaptGary]

Go for the OUPV or "six pack". That is where all the useful information is. The tonnage licenses really go over the Federal Register regs for bigger boats. All the navigation, rules of the road and safety stuff is learned in the OUPV. You will be amazed at all the stull you didn't even know you didn't know. I've had a 50 ton for over ten years now and have only really used the OUPV knowledge.

 

[jgwinks]

My experience getting a Masters license 11 years ago:

I took a two week course as a few others mentioned. The instructor did 'teach to the test' but also covered a great deal of 'real world' information. The class was roughly half recreational boaters and half fishermen. The fishermen in my class had the least amount of information going into the class and they were the only ones who had to go back and take the class again (part of the guaranteed to pass thing).

Also, again just my experience, 'professional' boaters like fishermen are the most likely to be doing things wrong, both legally and from a safety stand point. Taxi drivers are professional drivers but do you think they automatically are better drivers??

THE USCG CERTIFIED THE DAYS ON THE WATER and everything else needed for the license. The school just sent them my test results. Other than the test the USCG handles everything for the issuance of a credential.

6 years ago I renewed and was upped to 100gt near coastal automatically.

Last year I renewed and was got the same license.

The TWIC card is only for identification. It is actually easier to get than the license by a long shot - and I'm speaking of the bureaucratic hoops, not the test.

EVERYONE who gets a license takes more or less the same test (there are several versions but cover the same information).

Insurance:
Just last month my inlaws bought a boat and listing me as a license Captain / Master saved them over $500 a year! They had 5 years of boating experience listed but they are both under 36.

CAPTAIN - In my experience mostly from USCG hails is that 'skipper' is the person at the helm / driving the boat. A Captain is someone with a license. Bridge operators seem to always say 'Captain' though.


A few other things I've learned from the USCG.

ANY exchange of ANYTHING for getting on a boat requires a licensed Captain. If someone is asked to bring a bottle of wine for an afternoon sail / charter then you have to have a license. The USCG guy (in SF) said they only care about actual money unless there was a really substantial barter going on.

Splitting of costs is strictly limited. You can only split the actual expenses for the amount of time the boat is used. That means fuel or docking fees and that's it. And the boat owner has to pay the same amount as everyone else.

If anyone pays anything then it is a 'charter' that requires a license. And it also means a max of six guests if the boat is not inspected by the CG (which is a costly thing to get).

It is all pretty interesting and it makes sense if you get someone at the USCG to talk with you.

I have a 200T Master credential and taught the license courses for about 20 years. What you say here is essentially correct. You may voluntarily share expenses with guests but if contribution is required, it could be considered a charter and require a license. Also the boat must be equipped to charter boat standards even though the CG won't inspect it. (Here in Michigan the DNR does inspect them, and their requirements are more stringent than the Feds.) In case of a collision or injury, the problems probably would not come from law enforcement. It would be the victim's lawyers that would press the matter.
You're in-laws better be real careful. If they listed you as licensed Captain and have a collision or other incident when you're not aboard, their insurance may be void.

 

[psneeld]

Oh yeah - your legal limit of alcohol consumption is LOWER than non-licensed people. There's that.

When operating under your license which has nothing to do with recreational operations....

Unless as my previous post suggests that your negligence was so egregious that they look at you in a special light.

 

[Andiamo2018]

The in laws won't go anywhere without me

The class I took was the same for a six pack or a Masters. I don't know if the test was different or just graded differently. The main point of contention was always the hours you were able to document.

BTW, 4 hours to 24 hours = 1 day on the water. The boat has to be underway but I can't remember what that means exactly except that living on it won't cut it.

 

[billdomb]

Have taken the training for captain's license but never did the paperwork.

Why? Because we've been TOLD that once you have the card and are on someone else's boat, YOU still have serious responsibilities and can be held liable in certain instances.

True???

 

[psneeld]

Have taken the training for captain's license but never did the paperwork.

Why? Because we've been TOLD that once you have the card and are on someone else's boat, YOU still have serious responsibilities and can be held liable in certain instances.

True???

Mostly BS...read my previous posts and the law link I provided.....

Unless you are clueless and in the US you can always be sued...with or without a license....

 

[markpierce]

Learning can be lots of fun, and an award in itself.

 

[Tamara]

I'm in the middle of the online course now. I learn well at my own pace, so it's not a big deal for me to not have the class room. One thing I do to enhance the experience is take the quizzes several times, as they're different every time. I also use the internet or other materials to research any topic that I feel isn't covered completely.

There are several reasons I want the license. I am out of work because of Covid so I might do day cruises on Summer Tilt, or drive around one of those stupid tiki bar boat/motorized dock. It will certainly give me a few more options. As for insurance, they asked my experience and I was more than qualified to operate my little 36' Monk so I don't expect any further discounts, but would certainly appreciate them!

Also, and this may be difficult for some of you to understand, as a woman, I want all the education I can get so I can speak with at least some knowledge that's documented. (Even if some of you consider it store bought. I'm working diligently, so I guess I missed the whole being able to simply purchase it memo. That's so dismissive, BTW for anyone who's actually working on this, for whatever their reasons.) It's sometimes difficult to be taken seriously in certain situations, though that is certainly changing.

I learned most of this stuff in power squadron courses as a teenager in Sea Scouts and have been on boats my whole life, so it's fun to remind myself of things like DR and light patterns.

Overall, I'm enjoying it. I'll let y'all know how I do on the test! ��

 

[browndog15]

If you go to a school for the oupv/6 pack, they often offer an extra day of instruction for the masters upgrade. I'm new on here, but on my 3rd renewal. I use it to drive tour boats. The school i went to gave me 100 ton cert, but USCG started me at a 25t.

 

[BandB]

Have taken the training for captain's license but never did the paperwork.

Why? Because we've been TOLD that once you have the card and are on someone else's boat, YOU still have serious responsibilities and can be held liable in certain instances.

True???

Are you the master of the boat? Are you paid crew? Then you're just a passenger like anyone else.

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

The in laws won't go anywhere without me

The class I took was the same for a six pack or a Masters. I don't know if the test was different or just graded differently. The main point of contention was always the hours you were able to document.

BTW, 4 hours to 24 hours = 1 day on the water. The boat has to be underway but I can't remember what that means exactly except that living on it won't cut it.

A professional mariners 24 hr day equals 1.5 days because of watch schedule in the eyes of the Coast Guard.

 

[twistedtree]

I'm in the middle of the online course now. I learn well at my own pace, so it's not a big deal for me to not have the class room. One thing I do to enhance the experience is take the quizzes several times, as they're different every time. I also use the internet or other materials to research any topic that I feel isn't covered completely.

There are several reasons I want the license. I am out of work because of Covid so I might do day cruises on Summer Tilt, or drive around one of those stupid tiki bar boat/motorized dock. It will certainly give me a few more options. As for insurance, they asked my experience and I was more than qualified to operate my little 36' Monk so I don't expect any further discounts, but would certainly appreciate them!

Also, and this may be difficult for some of you to understand, as a woman, I want all the education I can get so I can speak with at least some knowledge that's documented. (Even if some of you consider it store bought. I'm working diligently, so I guess I missed the whole being able to simply purchase it memo. That's so dismissive, BTW for anyone who's actually working on this, for whatever their reasons.) It's sometimes difficult to be taken seriously in certain situations, though that is certainly changing.

I learned most of this stuff in power squadron courses as a teenager in Sea Scouts and have been on boats my whole life, so it's fun to remind myself of things like DR and light patterns.

Overall, I'm enjoying it. I'll let y'all know how I do on the test! ��

Forge ahead! Don't let anyone discourage you.

 

[twistedtree]

The school i went to gave me 100 ton cert, but USCG started me at a 25t.

That's a great example of the difference between the training dimension of a license (you trained for up to 100T), and the experience dimension (you only had experience for 25T). Unstated is the "operating range" dimension, which is most likely "Inland", and is totally based on experience.

 

[ranger58sb]

Re: Additional liability for Captains license: The way it was explained to me my several people whose knowledge I trust, is that like over the road truck drivers with a CDL license, boaters with a USCG license are held to a "higher standard" than those without the license when involved in an accident since they are presumed to be more knowledgeable, better trained, have more experiences, and therefore should be better able to avoid an accident. Perhaps others reading this post can comment.

Ok, maybe I am wrong about the additional liablilty but here is what I found about a CDL license and it is possible the same applies to boaters with USCG licenses.

"What happens if a CDL driver gets in an accident?If you are found to be partially or entirely at fault, you may receive tickets as the result of your accident. It's important to remember that fines and license points tend to be stricter for CDL holders than for those driving a vehicle for personal use."

Being held to license standards -- when operating under the license -- is one thing. When not operating under a license, for example as a passenger on somebody else's boat (tractor, whatever), no additional liability applies. (Except maybe for that egregious thing PSN mentions).

Have taken the training for captain's license but never did the paperwork.

Why? Because we've been TOLD that once you have the card and are on someone else's boat, YOU still have serious responsibilities and can be held liable in certain instances.

True???

Mostly internet myth. No need to shout.

-Chris

 

[KapnKarl]

Just Issued a 50 Ton Master

To the OP... I originally went for the "6 pack" but added the master upgrade to get the additional knowledge offered (firefighting, lifesaving, etc.). I believe it was worth it.

I live in New Jersey (pronounced New Joisey). In August 2020 I was issued a 50 Ton Near Coastal Master by the Coast Guard after completing an in-person course with Mariners Learning Center in November '19. It took a lot longer than expected for the gov't to process the paperwork (yup, lots of it) due to Covid and the Dept of Homeland Security closing down all their processing centers. They're recently mostly open again, so that shouldn't be such an issue now.

I was going to do the course online (Mariners offers both online and in a classroom) but ended up going the in-classroom route, and I'm glad I did. Even if I did the course online, Mariners requires students to go to a proctored location in person to take the exam. In any case, I met a number of great wannabees like me in the classes. We all helped each other with practical exercises (course plotting, triangulation, etc) in preparation for the proctored exam. Mariners, as I'm sure other schools are, is authorized to give the exam in lieu of taking it with the USCG. The course was given over several weekends (I still work during the week) with the exam being done on a separate day. The exam is a couple of hours long.

There's a good bit of info to learn and basically commit to memory (short-term or otherwise) to pass the multi-part, multiple choice exam. Yes it was all multiple-choice questions but trust me, there is some ambiguity built into more than one of the questions. My understanding is the CG has changed the number of questions and passing grades for each section as of January 2020. It does take some understanding and focus to pass all the sections. Rules of the Road is one section that a lot of emphasis is placed on and we had to have a grade of 90% to pass that section.

I haven't approached my insurance company yet regarding any discount they might offer. That wasn't my original intent for getting my license. I have a trawler that we'd like to do some traveling with (East Coast, Bahamas, beyond?) and that was why I took the course. A possible added benefit might be taking some folks on sunset cruises and getting paid, but that was an afterthought (and part of the justification to my Admiral.. shhhh.. loose lips sink ships ;-) ).

I think it was "TwistedTree" who previously mentioned, the tonnage and range rating of the license you get is based on your "sea service". You need to document time on the water for each vessel you've owned (and substantiate ownership via registration or documentation #) or crewed on (sign-off required from the owner) by month within each year. The displacement of the vessel is also required so they know what tonnage vessel you have experience on.

It's not for everyone, but if you're up for the challenge, it'll feel great when you check it off your bucket list.

Well, this post has gone on long enough. Hopefully I've given you what I believe to be some honest info regarding my exposure to getting my captains license. Good Luck!

 

[Bud]

I think the willingness to learn more whether in a classroom, online, or at sea is all good and neither is exclusive. The key is being teachable. The ocean teaches humility everyday. No peice of paper or at sea resume exempts us from its teachings just makes us less suprised by it.

Bud

 

[Northern Spy]

I think the willingness to learn more whether in a classroom, online, or at sea is all good and neither is exclusive. The key is being teachable. The ocean teaches humility everyday. No peice of paper or at sea resume exempts us from its teachings just makes us less suprised by it.

Bud

"The sea is selective; slow in recognition of effort and aptitude, but fast in sinking the unfit."

The Reisenberg Saying at NY Maritime.

 

[Spinner]

When I just went through this (documenting my sea days, the instructions for that form said sea day must consist of al least four hours, and you can only document one per calendar day....

I got my six pack license as a way to increase my knowledge. I don’t know what my future holds, but I have the license now and could put it to work!

 

[fgarriso]

As I remember it. You can go to school for up to 100 ton Master, but you had to have the documented sea time in the ships logs.

It has been quite a time since I got my ticket, so I could be wrong now.