Vicious Wake, 1 man down.

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Can't just people respect each other instead of playing this kind of game... ok I know I am an utopist thinking that on water it would be different than on land.

I'm an idealist too, although also a realist. If someone did something that harmed me, I had an injury, I would want to hold them accountable, but to me that involves either insurance or law enforcement, not me avenging the act. However, I also follow the no harm, no foul rule. I am not going to make myself miserable by carrying anger about everything done that I didn't like.

Now, I do find your comment on water vs. land interesting. I use to remark on the lake how nice people were including many that I knew in their jobs were horrible to deal with. People I've met on the water seem that way as a whole. More relaxed, less stressed, and less angry than on land. However, there are exceptions. They're primarily those who think the waterways should be theirs and completely follow their rules. Some just feel like their way is the only way. Some resent some of the others on the water.

One thing I've learned too is that I can't control what others do, so how do I make things better for myself. That's not through vandalizing. Sometimes it's even hard learned lessons. I know one thing is being secure in the helm seat and having others securely seated when chances of wakes or rough seas are there. I've boated all my life and one thing I learned early was that there was a guarantee of wakes from other boats. I then learned to be on the lookout for other boats speeding by my bow, unaware of how fast I was approaching and forcing me to slow down. I've learned that I can try all I want and there will still be someone upset over my wake or what they perceive. Living in South Florida I've learned some people will be upset they can't anchor everywhere and some will be upset with them anchoring anywhere.

It's supposed to be pleasure boating. When someone gets injured like the OP it clearly isn't. However, when there is not an injury, then I can't see how seeking revenge or even continuing to be angry makes things more pleasurable. I assume when someone cuts across my bow or passes too close or does something else I don't like, that it was not intentional, that they didn't realize. Why do I assume that? Because it makes my day more pleasant.
 
Well put
 
Now, I do find your comment on water vs. land interesting. I use to remark on the lake how nice people were including many that I knew in their jobs were horrible to deal with. People I've met on the water seem that way as a whole. More relaxed, less stressed, and less angry than on land. However, there are exceptions. They're primarily those who think the waterways should be theirs and completely follow their rules. Some just feel like their way is the only way. Some resent some of the others on the water.

No doubt that after my first season on the water I have been surprise to see how many nice and great people I have met.
Our first week onboard with my Admiral has been a week of discovery and the first thing we discovered is that mariners are a great, how much nice, familly of nice people (for the most part). And this nice familly is one big reason of why it is so nice and enjoyable to be on the water. To meet such nice people like you all are, I am sure, is a so rewarding life experience.

Cheers!

L.T.
 
BandB....

The last paragraph of your last post is the way I see many boaters. After decades of training and watching many supposedly well seasoned boaters.....I see them feverishly trying to do the right thing but they still get it wrong.

The combo of not enough hands on and book learning without the smoothing from an old time pro shows up as the occasional gross mistake that is too late to take back.

Tough to get angry with someone who cares and wants to do right, but makes the error. It's that 10 percent arrogant POSs who dont care at all that could use the wrath of King Neptune.
 
Here's a snippit from the US Coast Pilot:

"Speed and Wake Damage
(26) Speed and wake damage complaints are an ongoing
issue due to the increasing usage by both commercial and
recreational users. While there are no federal regulations
that address vessel speed limits outside of federal
anchorage grounds, all vessel operators are expected to
operate at a safe speed and in a manner that does not put
others at risk. Licensed commercial mariners are further
expected to be familiar with ongoing evolutions within
the port and honor the requests of other waterway users
as a professional courtesy. This information is published
at homeport.uscg.mil and in the weekly Local Notice
to Mariners at navcen.uscg.gov or by Safety Radio
Broadcasts (See Chapter Radio: Navigation Warnings,
Information and Weather). Title 46 Part 185.304 of the
Code of Federal Regulations, states: "The operator of
a vessel should pay special attention in regards to the
potential caused by their wake." The operation of a
vessel in a negligent manner is a violation of federal law
that may carry a monetary penalty. In addition, vessel
operators may incur civil liability for the damage caused
to other persons or property. Parties alleging the creation
of an excessive wake may document their concerns via
videotape or pictures. This type of documentation could
be the basis for opening a civil penalty case."
 
Mule, glad to hear you are doing better. Back injuries are tough...

He was doing over 30 knots when he passed with only two toots of the horn as he reached my starboard stern.

Two toots from an overtaking boat on your starboard is about what you can expect from somebody who wakes you so badly. Darwinism at its best...

We mostly cruise at hull speed and often get waked by other boats, usually not that badly. The Chesapeake Bay is a busy place with traffic ranging from sailing dinghies to 1,000' freighters making near 30 knots. The ones that seem to get me the worst are the wakes from the freighters that were a ways off and get to us after expected.

Then again, I have been able to fall down on the boat without any wake or wave at all. :banghead:
 
...............Two toots from an overtaking boat on your starboard is about what you can expect from somebody who wakes you so badly. Darwinism at its best.................

In my experience, very few boaters will use the proper sound signals and I suspect they don't know them. The last time someone gave me a horn signal while passing on my starboard side, he used just one horn blast (the signal for passing on the port side). I suspect he thought he was driving a car.
 
Update......

I got my ER bill in. $75 for me $17,000+ for my insurance company.

Wow!

Does not include the MRI...another $1200 I suspect and 2 Doctor visits. Knocking on $20k. I wish the insurance companies would go after him and his ins co.
 
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Update......

I got my ER bill in. $75 for me $17,000+ for my insurance company.

Wow!

Does not include the MRI...another $1200 I suspect and 2 Doctor visits. Knocking on $20k. I wish the insurance companies would go after him and his ins co.

Did you inform your boat and your health insurance? If so, they just might do so. Of course, the other risk is that in informing health it was an accident,they might just refuse to pay.
 
Update......

I got my ER bill in. $75 for me $17,000+ for my insurance company.

Wow!

Does not include the MRI...another $1200 I suspect and 2 Doctor visits. Knocking on $20k. I wish the insurance companies would go after him and his ins co.

Did you inform your boat and your health insurance? If so, they just might do so. Of course, the other risk is that in informing health it was an accident,they might just refuse to pay.

Unfortunately, we have quite a few medical bills. :nonono: Every once in awhile the insurance company will send us a bill asking if the treatment was caused by an accident involving others. Most of the time the answer is no but one time it was and I assume the insurance companies had a chat and I assume some money was exchanged.

Later,
Dan
 
Greetings,
Mr. BandB. "...informing health it was an accident,they might just refuse to pay." How does that work? You slip, break your arm and you aren't covered because it was an accident?
 
Greetings,
Mr. BandB. "...informing health it was an accident,they might just refuse to pay." How does that work? You slip, break your arm and you aren't covered because it was an accident?

The process should be that your medical insurance covers and goes after the accident insurer for reimbursement. However, they do depend on you filing a claim against the accident insurer. If you fail to do that, then I've known them to refuse to pay because you gave their rights of recovery away. The auto or boat insurer is supposed to pay first in the order and medical insurer pick up anything left.

Your health insurance just wants to be sure that the other insurer or other party fulfills their obligation. The only way that can happen is with your assistance. They may require you to file suit in the process. They'll typically provide the attorney and cover the costs if they do so.

The other situation is worker's compensation claims. Work related injuries are generally excluded from health insurance policies. This depends on the state and the policy. Even when they do cover, it would only be after worker's compensation or the employer.

You slip and break your arm and medical insurance will go after the building owner or the employer for recovery. If not on the job, they'll probably pay and then try to recover. If on the job, they will sometimes do that or other times not pay, referring you to worker's compensation.

All this varies by specific situation, by state and by policy.
 
Greetings,
Mr. BandB. "...informing health it was an accident,they might just refuse to pay." How does that work? You slip, break your arm and you aren't covered because it was an accident?

Another one for you to think about, RTF. Terrorism. Many, if not most, health insurance policies exclude it. For those that do cover, evacuation becomes the big issue of debate.
 
If mule was able to see the wake in time what should have been the proper maneuver to minimize the impact?
 
Wasn't this a wake and run accident?

I do not think that your boat policy would pay out as easily as some might think.

We have discussed, and even argued the concept of negligence and ones liability for same.

The challenge is actually getting a payback from a marine insurance policy for wake damage, for two boats that were both underway at the time. If I were a betting person...I'd bet that in order to get any money that negligence woud have to be proven, probably in court. That would give both sides a chance to argue their cases.

So... It's not as simple as wake and run. A wake is not as cut and dried as a automobile collision.
 
I do not think that your boat policy would pay out as easily as some might think.

We have discussed, and even argued the concept of negligence and ones liability for same.

The challenge is actually getting a payback from a marine insurance policy for wake damage, for two boats that were both underway at the time. If I were a betting person...I'd bet that in order to get any money that negligence woud have to be proven, probably in court. That would give both sides a chance to argue their cases.

So... It's not as simple as wake and run. A wake is not as cut and dried as a automobile collision.

I would think that outside of court there is no chance of the other boat's policy paying. His own would pay a small amount subject to it's personal injury limit, which is often as little as $5,000.
 
If mule was able to see the wake in time what should have been the proper maneuver to minimize the impact?

Contact the boat on the radio and ask for a slow pass.

If that didn't work then either move to block the passing boat, if there was time to do it safely, to force them to slow down. (Kind of tricky but some people do it.) Or turn into the wake as soon as the boat passes to try and take the wake as bow on as possible.

Of course if you have stabilizers this would all be a non issue. :D
 
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My commiserations Mule, idiots abound.

Might be worthwhile trying to track him down, if only to give him a piece of your mind.

I had this happen from the other side of the fence. A guy walked up to a friend and I who were sitting at a waterfront bar. He started accusing my buddy of running in a no-wake zone with a wake and almost capsizing his Boston Whaler.

I can assure you, however you think this is going to go, it won't. My buddy denied it, then we laughed about it (at him) for the rest of the night. In our mind he was either confusing my buddy with another boat, or way overreacting.

Trust me when I tell you confrontation will only make you out to the a-hole in their eyes.
 
I got flat footed and did not see him coming up on my port from the rear early on, with my 50-75 foot back tow, well before his arrival I would have maneuvered to slow him down, including using ch 16. Not the case. To head into the wake, a 150 degree turn to head into it.

As I said earlier, the only legal answer, no vigilainte action, is every cell phone available (we had 4 aboard and 2 more a mile ahead) call 911 and use channel 16, naming the boat calling for law enforcement to act due to a negligent operator, a dangerous operator, that is a menace. MAYBE he will get boarded. We would have given 6 to 911 more perhaps with people listening on 16.

On boarding with channel 16 accusations and 6 911 calls leads me to think the officer might, just might, have a less than positive friendly attitude on boarding and screw him to tears.
 
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Just to be clear, inland rules read that a single whistle blast means the passing vessel is leaving YOU to port...which you are suppose to acknowledge. Two blasts would be asking to leave you to starboard.
 
Another one for you to think about, RTF. Terrorism. Many, if not most, health insurance policies exclude it. For those that do cover, evacuation becomes the big issue of debate.


Just as an auto accident...my insurance takes care of me. Should they wish to recover in a case it is up to them to go after the offender. I pay my deductible, if the insurance company go after the offender that is up to them. If they do, and win, I assume I will get made completely whole. Repayment of deductibles and then I will also have a discussion concerning pain and suffering and also punitive damages to remind the offender that there is punishment for irresponsible behavior...

Nice dream.......never, never happen.:banghead:
 
Head toward the wake, cut power. I do that all the time.
 
I would argue that in this case, with one boat being what, 35 or 40 feet in length, being passed by a boat that was probably the same size or 10' longer...

What is he supposed to do, not pass???

If the OP was doing 7 knots and the passing boat was doing 15 knots the wave would have been probably twice the size as the reported 30 knot passing speed.

Sorry... but in this case as it was originally described by the OP in post #1 of this thread I do not see anybody doing anything wrong...

Except the OP for not paying attention.
 
Bullshit.... had I been paying attention to my rear I would have cut in front of him and shut him down. To head into the wake would have required a 150 degree turn, with a tow.

I did nothing wrong. His wake was absurd. Where Did you get 15 Knots? I clearly stated 30+ Knots with a 40 to 50 foot sport fisher. I clearly stated in excess of 4 foot wake with no warning. Should I have seen him, yes. After that, all bets are off. Zigging and zaging. Calling him down on 16. Doing what I could have done legally, (assuming I had anticipated) would have even been more dangerous than his rude, irresponsible operation.

I noticed you operate a 20+ - knot 47 foot high horsepower boat...throws a big wake... Are you one of those "boaters" that go up and down the waterways like the one described with arrogance like a one boat wrecking boat stinking up everything in your wake then when one of your brethren is called on it you defend him?

Just wondering? Are you?
 
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Copy that. I think it is interesting how much posturing occurs on Internet forums. Quite a few folks make statements about the physical harm they will inflict as they sit behind their computer screen with their PJ's and slippers on. If we acted like this in real life, there would be fist fights in the grocery store on a daily basis.

Again, I don't like to see anybody get hurt, but life has inherent risks, and that includes vicious boat wakes.

The time we all should be concerned is when we turn the ignition key on our car, walking down stairs, or through a crowded parking lot at Walmart. I used to tell my kids when when they were young to be afraid of cars, not sharks. Ok, now I am really drifting off subject. Out.

I had this happen from the other side of the fence. A guy walked up to a friend and I who were sitting at a waterfront bar. He started accusing my buddy of running in a no-wake zone with a wake and almost capsizing his Boston Whaler.

I can assure you, however you think this is going to go, it won't. My buddy denied it, then we laughed about it (at him) for the rest of the night. In our mind he was either confusing my buddy with another boat, or way overreacting.

Trust me when I tell you confrontation will only make you out to the a-hole in their eyes.
 
Bullshit.... had I been paying attention to my rear I would have cut in front of him and shut him down. To head into the wake would have required a 150 degree turn, with a tow.

I did nothing wrong. His wake was absurd. Where Did you get 15 Knots? I clearly stated 30+ Knots with a 40 to 50 foot sport fisher. I clearly stated in excess of 4 foot wake with no warning. Should I have seen him, yes. After that, all bets are off. Zigging and zaging. Calling him down on 16. Doing what I could have done legally, (assuming I had anticipated) would have even been more dangerous than his rude, irresponsible operation.

I noticed you operate a 20+ - knot 47 foot high horsepower boat...throws a big wake... Are you one of those "boaters" that go up and down the waterways like the one described with arrogance like a one boat wrecking boat stinking up everything in your wake then when one of your brethren is called on it you defend him?

Just wondering? Are you?

Clearly, you're not paying attention again. He said if the passing boat was going 15 knots . . .
 
On the type of boat you describe (Sport Fisher) at 30 knots you claimed you received a 4 foot wake. I can assure you him passing you at 15 knots you would have experienced at least a 6 foot wake depending on his loading and whether he adjusted his trim tabs prior to slowing down and the subsequent passing.

I do not see any wrong doing by any party. Sure, things could have been done better and maintaining situational awareness should be the utmost priority in an area where you feel you have restricted navigational ability.
 
As a retired single person, I'd hope that paying nearly $1K a month for health insurance (half going to mandatory Medicare) premiums, I'd be covered, hopefully.
 
Bullshit.... had I been paying attention to my rear I would have cut in front of him and shut him down. To head into the wake would have required a 150 degree turn, with a tow.

I did nothing wrong. His wake was absurd. Where Did you get 15 Knots? I clearly stated 30+ Knots with a 40 to 50 foot sport fisher. I clearly stated in excess of 4 foot wake with no warning. Should I have seen him, yes. After that, all bets are off. Zigging and zaging. Calling him down on 16. Doing what I could have done legally, (assuming I had anticipated) would have even been more dangerous than his rude, irresponsible operation.

I noticed you operate a 20+ - knot 47 foot high horsepower boat...throws a big wake... Are you one of those "boaters" that go up and down the waterways like the one described with arrogance like a one boat wrecking boat stinking up everything in your wake then when one of your brethren is called on it you defend him?

Just wondering? Are you?

You Gotta read my post Mule. :)

He passed you at 30 knots, thats your words from your original post.

IF he would have slowed down and passed you at a slower speed (say 15 knots) his wake would have been larger, much larger.

So... what should he have done??? Possibly called you on the radio and asked you to check your six??? Yes he might have done that. Does he have to travel at your speed? Is that your expectation of your fellow boaters? Should he have passed you at a slower speed and waked you worse??? Seriously what should he have done???


For the record, no I do not go fast most of the time, even though I have the capability to do so.

Also for the record I have been waked, and waked bad.

The difference is that I learned from being waked. I learned that my job as captain is to pay attention, and to manuver my boat properly to protect myself and my passengers

When I see a boat pass close by I take prudent action. I turn into the waves and take them in the bow or at least on the forward quarter.

I am truely sorry you got hurt. I really am. Perhaps next time things will be different.
 
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