Which type anchor?

[RickyD]

I had a danforth for 20 years on my sailboat and it did well in our typical anchoring conditions in Southern Calif. One time it did not set was because kelp kept the flukes from digging in. Then my 47ft cruiser came with the CQR. In the sand and occasional harbor mud it worked perfectly every time. It set hard and fast. My current 64,000 lb 55ft came with three Fortress anchors. I wanted a CQR but I began to research the latest designs. I tried the miniature drag test at the boat show. I had people telling me the Rocna was best. I watched the comparison videos from Mantus. Even the one showing the CQR not setting in hard sand. I know these videos were all performed to show how the Mantus was better but show me another company/design that does what Mantus does with videos. So, I bought one. They recommended a 105lb version for my boat. I opted for one smaller, the 85lb as I have 500ft of all chain and generally just spin around a lump of chain rather than the anchor with our calm conditions. I also still have three Fortress anchors should a blow develop. The Fortress really needs 5/1 scope. The Mantus can be effective with 2.5/1. I frequently (even last weekend) anchor in 100ft. Quite hard to get 5/1 there. Now the negative. When I set the Mantus, I don't really feel the hard yanking set I was used to with the CQR. Could be I'm anchoring deeper and the weight of all that chain has an impact, or more likely the weight of this boat drags the Mantus through the sand a bit when fully loaded. In two years with frequent anchoring, no weather related dragging. Nothing but very deep sleep at night.

 

[Art]

So every used car I purchased was a big American honker of a car because I knew eventually they would go the way of the gooney bird.

And those beautifully restored cars you see being sold at Barrett-Jackson Auctions, you know those great old Chevys, the old Vets, etc. drove like pigs and the restored ones will drive like an old not fun car that loves to go in a straight line but doesn't like to turn.

I have a buddy who has some Mopar muscle car he has restored and been offered amounts up to $100,000. The thing is when I had a similar conversation with him as I am offering here, he agreed - says he doesn't like to drive it. He just drives it in the local show and shines.

But those cars work and provide transportation, but everything is dated about them except for the wonderful styling, eye candy but you can't take it anywhere.

First of all... to stay in context... I want to say that I appreciate Fortress Anchors!

Apology for cutting up your post; for support of this statement.

Well - The "land-sharks" [i.e. Detroit's highway cruiser "Boats"] were not [often simply could not be] handled correctly by most drivers because of two primary factors.

1. Detroit's "Boat's" frontend and backend stabilizer linkages, as well as both ends' suspension springs/shocks were usually sub-standard equipment that came from the manufacturer's factory. Proper improvement [customizations] on/of/in-addition-to those items made even the big ol' "Boats" handle much better. Factory supplied and recommended tire quality and psi inflation is another circumstance that needed considerable improvement.

2. Once improvements were installed: Most drivers needed to take and learn car handling instructions; i.e. professional driving lessons in order to correctly know how to drive their "Boat" on the road... under all conditions and circumstances!

As example - BIG VIP limos are well equipped to perform similar to a sports car and VIP drivers are extremely well trained!

I have our cherry condition 1967 Buick Wildcat equipped with improvements required for better handling. Also, jacked up her original 430 cid 360 hp engine to 400 + hp during full rebuild in 2015. We use her for fun Sunday drives [3K +/- miles per year]. Additionally, back in the day I performed in some rather unusual "backwoods" stock car races, driving 1950's/60's heavy detroit iron with customized suspension and powerful modified engines. Learned plenty of driving tricks.

That said... well designed sports cars are by far the best handlers under most conditions.

 

[RickyD]

One additional piece of information. Based on the Mantus videos, I bought a little one for my dinghy. I used it for the first time Saturday. The Dinghy is a Caribe DL12 with a 40 horse Honda. With battery and fuel it weights almost 800lbs. Add my 200 and my wife's little bit and I was shocked how well it worked. There was a surge and I wanted to beach my dog for relief. I tossed the anchor off the stern with a very short line already attached to the boat and hoped it would stop us before we hit the beach. That little two pound anchor stopped us from "surging" up the beach and held us there. I then tossed another anchor up the beach with my dinghy dock line and we were good. Check out the Mantus video with the little 2 pounder.

 

[jclays]

Because something works is not necessarily a great argument for using it. Back in 1970, my at the time girlfriend bought a new Corolla, Honda cars were still relatively new to the market back then. And I drove it frequently. It was pretty clear the car was ahead of its time in terms of driveability and durability.

We broke up and sadly I had to waive goodbye to the Corolla, not sure what or who I missed most. But after that experience it was pretty clear to me that America would be going Japanese. So every used car I purchased was a big American honker of a car because I knew eventually they would go the way of the gooney bird. And I was right.

And those beautifully restored cars you see being sold at Barrett-Jackson Auctions, you know those great old Chevys, the old Vets, etc. drove like pigs and the restored ones will drive like an old not fun car that loves to go in a straight line but doesn't like to turn. The reason the early BMW 3's became so popular were because they drove like go carts on the road. I have a buddy who has some Mopar muscle car he has restored and been offered amounts up to $100,000. The thing is when I had a similar conversation with him as I am offering here, he agreed - says he doesn't like to drive it. He just drives it in the local show and shines.

But those cars work and provide transportation, but everything is dated about them except for the wonderful styling, eye candy but you can't take it anywhere.

The old anchors worked most of the time, literally hundreds of thousands of people have used all the old style anchors and they worked the great majority of the time, but the newer stuff is better. Because something works isn't a deal breaker argument, how much better or worse does it work compared to new models.

Anyone want to buy an XT computer - still works?

Because IT WORKS! (were talking about anchors not cars or computers) is the only reason to use an anchor. You want a time proven design that works for your specific application when you need it to work.

 

[Nomad Willy]

A rock w a hole in it works too ....... but how well?

 

[Peter B]

Because IT WORKS! (were talking about anchors not cars or computers) is the only reason to use an anchor. You want a time proven design that works for your specific application when you need it to work.

LOL, I have to agree, anchors and cars are miles apart, but funnily enough, most times I anchored with my Sarca, rather agricultural though it may look to some, a certain iconic Honda ad we had here, in Oz anyway, would come to mind. At the end of a beauatifuly graphic series of images, where a Honda Accord reassembled itself backwards, a deep voice would come on and say..."Don't you love it when something just works!"

 

[HopCar]

A rock w a hole in it works too ....... but how well?

That’s funny! I actually found a nice rock, drilled a hole in it, spliced a line to it and hung it in my stores anchor display. The hundred dollar price tag really cut down on sales.

 

[Art]

That’s funny! I actually found a nice rock, drilled a hole in it, spliced a line to it and hung it in my stores anchor display. The hundred dollar price tag really cut down on sales.

Parks - Have Photos? Would be great to see em!

Your $100 retail price on a "Rock" anchor must have drawn plenty discussion, commentary and jokes in a chandlery!! Great promo trick; congrats!

Bet you didn't offer free shipping... LOL

 

[T210DRVR]

A wise old yachtsman and I were swapping stories the other day. I told him I was considering a modern design to replace my 65# CQR. Because of its size it is a bit oversized for the boat. When he learned that I had a large Danforth as a backup he suggested just to keep the CQR.

 

[rslifkin]

A wise old yachtsman and I were swapping stories the other day. I told him I was considering a modern design to replace my 65# CQR. Because of its size it is a bit oversized for the boat. When he learned that I had a large Danforth as a backup he suggested just to keep the CQR.

He's right in the sense that between those 2 designs, as long as the CQR is big enough, you can anchor in most conditions. But personally, I'd still replace the CQR for the sake of having something easier to set and reducing the number of situations where you'll need to switch anchors.

 

[koliver]

The yachtsman that came before the CQR had 2 flaws.



The older CQR are forged and have the hinge and can frequently be found for $2.50 a pound, used.

Hey Fred, where is that? My CQR would thus be worth $110 $US I presume, so $160 $Cdn. Best I see on ebay is $6.33US /#.

I would happily pick up another at that price, At present my spare is a Danforth, that has never been wet. My CQR has failed me a few times, but I give it an excuse: I frequently overload it. One of my frequent rafting partners weighs more than twice what I do, so when a wind kicks up unexpectedly and we are on my hook, I expect my anchor to drag and it sometimes does. When we are on his 200# North hill, we have only dragged a very few times.

 

[SteveK]

Hey Fred, where is that? My CQR would thus be worth $110 $US I presume, so $160 $Cdn. Best I see on ebay is $6.33US /#.

I would happily pick up another at that price, At present my spare is a Danforth, that has never been wet. My CQR has failed me a few times, but I give it an excuse: I frequently overload it. One of my frequent rafting partners weighs more than twice what I do, so when a wind kicks up unexpectedly and we are on my hook, I expect my anchor to drag and it sometimes does. When we are on his 200# North hill, we have only dragged a very few times.

It would interest to know if the anchor is plowing earth as on a farm or the rode is snapped and the anchor unhooks and re sets in those cases.
any thoughts.
after thought, probably plowing

 

[Nomad Willy]

So if you all insist on using old anchors, specifically a CQR and a Danforth I see a better combo. These two anchors both do quite well holding but have trouble w various bottoms. I consider that a setting problem. To solve that problem I’d just buy a good sized SARCA or Excel. Or another good modern anchor. And that’s the only anchor you’ll probably need.
But consider that if you like old iron just buy a cheap oversized Claw to mate w either your Danforth or yoyr CQR. But they would almost always stay in the boat .. stowed. Your CQR and Danforth can both be replaced w a big Claw .. or Bruce (probably best). But like I say the SARCA would probably be (if you had one) the last anchor you’d buy. Any other anchor would just be a spare .. most likely only used as a stern anchor. But then you’d probably be thinking of a Fortress for lightness. But a Fortress and a new SARCA would be a few hundred dollars.

But having two anchors that only shine for high holding is like having a big Lexus and a big Cadillac.

 

[rslifkin]

To me, the Danforth falls into a unique category. Doesn't work for everything, but is very good in the situations where it works well. The huge surface area to weight means you can carry a huge one for anchoring in crappy mud without it being super heavy and hard to handle or a big weight penalty for something you rarely use. And then use something else that works in the other 95% of conditions as your primary.

 

[jclays]

Ill stick with my old original Bruce and break out my modified mud danforth for the mud. No need to break out bucks when my set up always works for me.

 

[jclays]

A rock w a hole in it works too ....... but how well?

What ever..

 

[markpierce]

...
But consider that if you like old iron just buy a cheap oversized Claw to mate w either your Danforth or yoyr CQR.....

A claw works nicely in the San Francisco estuary with its heavy mud and very frequent reversals of 2.5 knot currents.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Mark,
Why do you anchor?

Art,
Here’s my old Buick. Sold several years ago to an agent that buys cars for people around the world and ships them in containers.
Interestingly the guy that got my old 455 was in Sweden. Saw him briefly on skype. He was all smiles. He must have paid a lot for the car but I was happy that the car had a good home for years to come. Chris named that car Brown Bear.


As a sports car my thoroughly modern Toyota Avalon is much more of a “sports car” than my old Buick ever hoped to be. About the same hp. However I’ve not pushed the handling issue to the ragged edge on either car.

 

[Mako]

Wow Eric, that big barge of a Buick reminds me of my favorite car I ever owned... a giant Coupe deVille that weighed about 5000 lbs (4000 lbs of that was rust) got 8 mpg with its 500 C.I. engine, and was the perfect vehicle for a young Guido like me to cruise the strip at night!

 

[Art]

Wow Eric, that big barge of a Buick reminds me of my favorite car I ever owned... a giant Coupe deVille that weighed about 5000 lbs (4000 lbs of that was rust) got 8 mpg with its 500 C.I. engine, and was the perfect vehicle for a young Guido like me to cruise the strip at night!

1955 "pink" Coupe Deville, 1961 dark-brown Sedan Deville, 1962 white Coupe Deville, 1963 white Sedan Deville, 1964 white Coupe Deville, 1967 black Fleetwood sedan, 1968 medium-brown Sedan Deville, 1970 dark-blue Coupe Deville, 1972 red Coupe Deville, 1974 white Eldorado!

First time I've listed all ten Cadillacs I've owned. Some were at the same time and not necessarily in that order of years owned.

Since 1998 - we've enjoyed and babied our Sunday Driver 1967 Buick Wildcat

PS: I've found that once enlarged if you double click on a photo it gets even bigger and correctly framed. Works for me, hope that works for you too!

 

[foggysail]

Anchors! My experience sucks and sucks is a kind word. Well, maybe not all of my experience. For example, prior to our harbors filling with ell grass, my Bruce 33 & 44 held 30' Hunter sailboat reliably well. The 44 even held my 40' Silverton when in sand so I graduated to Delta anchors, first a 55#. That sucker plowed better than an old farmer with a horse. So thinking big is better....I just upgraded to an 88# Delta. Same farmer, new horse.

All this heavy stuff is/was attached to 5/16 chain and lifted raised with my Maxwell HWC2200 .........I think its a 2200, windlass. I NEEDED TO SLEEP ON ANCHOR!!! Determination I hoped would lead to satisfaction, experience shows I need greater determination after experiencing less than reliable performance with my 80# Manson Supreme.

Here is today's thought. Three years or so ago I purchased an FX55 Fortress which has sat in its original shipping container, resting comfortably somewhere on my boat. This season I hope to yank that over rated Manson and replace it with the Fortress. Something has to work!

 

[RickyD]

Anchors! My experience sucks and sucks is a kind word. Well, maybe not all of my experience. For example, prior to our harbors filling with ell grass, my Bruce 33 & 44 held 30' Hunter sailboat reliably well. The 44 even held my 40' Silverton when in sand so I graduated to Delta anchors, first a 55#. That sucker plowed better than an old farmer with a horse. So thinking big is better....I just upgraded to an 88# Delta. Same farmer, new horse.

All this heavy stuff is/was attached to 5/16 chain and lifted raised with my Maxwell HWC2200 .........I think its a 2200, windlass. I NEEDED TO SLEEP ON ANCHOR!!! Determination I hoped would lead to satisfaction, experience shows I need greater determination after experiencing less than reliable performance with my 80# Manson Supreme.

Here is today's thought. Three years or so ago I purchased an FX55 Fortress which has sat in its original shipping container, resting comfortably somewhere on my boat. This season I hope to yank that over rated Manson and replace it with the Fortress. Something has to work!

If you can get the Fortress to dig in you'll survive a gale but take a look at the Mantus. 50% of its weight presses on the point helping it to dig in even with eel grass.

 

[Nomad Willy]

RickyD,
That's what they say about the Claws only I think it's more like 66%.

 

[AusCan]

It all depends on what your bottom is like in your cruising grounds.

The anchor I use 95% of the time would be useless in most areas, but what most people use would fail miserably on our limestone bottom covered with a bit of sand and a lot of seagrass.

Use whatever suits your local cruising grounds. Talk to people who anchor out a lot.

 

[Peter B]

Anchors! My experience sucks and sucks is a kind word.....I hoped would lead to satisfaction, experience shows I need greater determination after experiencing less than reliable performance with my 80# Manson Supreme....This season I hope to yank that over rated Manson and replace it with the Fortress. Something has to work!

Foggy, that is indeed a sad story. It sounds like weed is your enemy all right. As your pulpit can handle a Manson Supreme, then it is ok with a roll bar type, so might I respectufully suggest that you see if the chandlery you bought the Mantus off might give you credit on the equivalent weight Super Sarca. Maybe the Fortress as well, as they are a damned awkward shape to handle. Why...because take it from me, they are excellent in weed, and anything else, hence the name, which stands for Sand And Rock Combination Anchor. You would never regret this move, if you follow through on it. There are places that handle the Sarcas in the US now.

 

[psneeld]

Hmmm...my personal experience with hundreds of nights at hanchor on a Manson Supreme 60 lber has been...well Supreme. In many different bottom types between NJ and the Keys.



I don't have any experience with other Nexgen anchors.... but plenty with Claws, Deltas, CQRs, Danforths and knockoffs, and a few others.


In all my readings, it seems most of the articles all the other owners of Mansons have had similar results. Other cruisers I have chatted with either with r without a Manson Supreme also seem impressed with them.


I doubt they are better than some of the other Nexgen anchors, but I wouldn't consider them overated....unless anyone starts a myth that they will never fail to hold...just like any other anchor.

 

[Peter B]

Hmmm...my personal experience with hundreds of nights at hanchor on a Manson Supreme 60 lber has been...well Supreme. In many different bottom types between NJ and the Keys......
In all my readings, it seems most of the articles all the other owners of Mansons have had similar results. Other cruisers I have chatted with either with r without a Manson Supreme also seem impressed with them.

Yes, psn, you're right, and his failures with the Manson Supreme was a bit unusual. My read of it is that he must anchor predominantly in an area with certain types of weed, which are a bit harder to penetrate with the concave fluke of the Manson, and why the convex, (with sharper tip) of the S-Sarca just might give it the edge, (literally) needed..?

 

[BruceK]

... stands for Sand And Rock Combination Anchor. You would never regret this move, if you follow through on it. There are places that handle the Sarcas in the US now.

I need an Excel No.5, the Super Sarca doesn`t fit the Integrity closed roller end design.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Bruce how have you been using the SARCA in it’s “dosn’t fit state”?
Since it’s small and dense the Excel could be classified as a penetrator. When I pick up the Excel it seems very heavy and it dosn’t take up much real estate.

In this pic of a 21lb Excel and my highly modified Manson Supreme that started out weighing 18lbs. But it actually was supposed to weigh 15lbs. In it's modified state (w 98% of it's original fluke) there appears to be little difference in fluke surface area. But the Excel weighs almost twice as much. And works better by far.

 

[markpierce]

Mark,
Why do you anchor?

Anchor to spend infrequently overnight not in a marina, typically experiencing several tidal current changes in a 2.5 knot current.