Abandoning sailboat for a Trawler.

[Ritser]

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

Also have serious look at a Fleming! As an ex sailor (2 ocean crossings) I am very happy with my Krogen Express not ocean crossing capabel but noproblem for serious coastal passages. Good kuck with yiur search.

 

[La Sirena]

I have a Selene 57. Several Selenes have crossed the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. If you're going to Trawlerfest in Baltimore, you may want to go to the Selene Rendezvous in Baltimore Sept 19 - 22. I think their will be about 20 boats there. I think there will be 1 or 2 Selenes at the Trawlerfest. The Selene is a very well built boat, but never had the US marketing or presence that Nordhavn has in the US. More Selenes are sold outside the US than inside.

 

[HopCar]

Welcome!

 

[balder8]

We are two aboard our 57-60 feet over all, my boat is truely heavy, but with the Dockmate ( action on hydraulic stern and bow prop, engine forward and reverse,horn), it is more easy than with the sailing yachts I owned before. Underway, a reliable stabilizer system and a back up is mandatory for long passage

 

[Hippocampus]

Although Amel has a good rep they’ve gotten a bit strange with recent offerings imho. Much like the N41 and 51 think they’ve responded to the fact most of their boats are used coastal.. I feeling are they’ve taken solutions a bit off the beaten path so are a bit strange to someone used to more traditional solutions. But the new single masted versions are consistent with other current offerings. Still the Maramu(super Maramu) are very common in international waters and considered strong boats. Personally don’t like center cockpits for blue water boats. Even after French in both high school and college have trouble figuring out things on them. A sailing couple we got close to were on a Super Maramu (recently sold as they swallowed the anchor) and went everywhere as mom and pop. But she had in mast furling so we’d need to throttle down buddy boating. Still one of the few production ketches at a reasonable price and size and I like ketches.
Find comments about avoiding weather interesting. Yes our capability to avoid averse weather has increased with the years. But sh@t happens even now. We still have tragedies like Bayesian every year or three. If you sail enough you may experience a knockdown, rogue or microburst. N can point to one of their boats being knocked down upon a landfall and keep on ticking. I was part of the Salty Dawg fleet that followed the weather routers directions and had great troubles requiring rescues and abandonments. We left two days early as we read the front differently and had no trouble. Even the best make mistakes on weather. Parker and commanders have made mistakes on a standard easy rally (Caribbean 1500 /salty dawg) and both are very highly skilled.
So a blue water boat does what it can to increase the probability they won’t see weather but knows that it will fail as no weather report is 100%. The blue water boat should be maximized to survive a rogue, white squall, microburst, lighten strike or knockdown. Yes the vast majority of passages are benign but occasionally not so much and you need to deal with it.
I don’t take reports of voyages done on a particular boat as a strong endorsement. I do take voyages done and have experienced averse conditions or serious failures/events but continued on as strong endorsements. People cross the Atlantic in rowboats. Yes go to English Harbor and see the high tech employed when they land. But people also do transatlantic in the craziest things and get away with it. Not me and hopefully not you.

 

[ronobrien]

Thanks, just ordered the book and looking forward to reading it. Could you give me your reasons for why a 50-60' Trawler is not suited to cross oceans? I was going to cross the Atlantic in my Amel 50' last year but changed plans. Of the 100 or so sailboats I'm familiar with which crossed without issue the average size was around 45'. In years past the average size was quite a bit smaller. Are their considerations about crossing with a Trawler different than a sailboat other than mode of primary power and fuel considerations?I

I am not very knowledgeable on the various make/models of trawler, but as a sailor of 40+ years, the make can be all the difference in experience or even survive-ability. I have stated when asked that I would rather be at sea in 27' Pacific Seacraft than a 50' Macgregor.

 

[Hippocampus]

Had a PSC 34. She did fine in squalls, Tstorms and sailed through periods of bf 7/8 without a whimper. Great boats. Can go even smaller. Many 28’ Bristol Channel cutters have circumnavigated

 

[Nepidae]

Whe

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

When you are at Trawlerfest stop by the MTOA booth (usually at the entrance to the show).
Good group to join will be a fountain of info for you.
Ask for me, I'll probably be there on Friday.

 

[yzapanti]

Yes, absolutely. Many, if not most sailboats can cross oceans as is. Not so with trawlers.

1. Sailboats have low coach roofs so blue water hitting the windows is not a problem. Not so with trawlers. A big slug of blue water would cave in most trawler pilot house windows.

2. Trawlers are much more susceptible to seawater down flow. Both because trawlers have more surface area in the air vents because they produce more hp and because the engine is the only source of power.

3. A related issue is that the angle of vanishing stability is at least 120 degrees and as much as 150 for some sailboats. For most trawlers it is less than 90, although for many Nordhavn’s it is about 120.

When a trawler goes over, it stays over. A sailboat will eventually right itself if it hasn’t taken on too much water.

Most sailboats can be upgraded for blue water passages. Not so for most trawlers.

A sure indicator of a potential blue water trawler is ballast. If it doesn’t have about 10% of its weight in ballast and a displacement hull, it isn’t going to be a safe blue water passagemaker.

The list of trawlers that meet that criteria is pretty small.

David

Thank you, David, for this check list. What do you think about Grand Banks? I did like Selene too and of course Fleming. My plan is going again to Alaska, then big U, then handing in Caribbeans, then cross Atlantic to Mediterranean's and so on - would like to end up in my parents' home, Finland... I know this is pretty ambitious, but this is 10 years plan.

 

[HopCar]

There was a fellow in the trawler forum that took a single engine Kadey Krogan 42 across the Atlantic, cruised Europe, back across the Atlantic, through the Panama Canal and up the west coast to Alaska. Haven’t heard from him in a while. The boats name was MV Dauntless. Before crossing the Atlantic he tied up behind my store and installed paravanes.

 

[DavidM]

Thank you, David, for this check list. What do you think about Grand Banks? I did like Selene too and of course Fleming. My plan is going again to Alaska, then big U, then handing in Caribbeans, then cross Atlantic to Mediterranean's and so on - would like to end up in my parents' home, Finland... I know this is pretty ambitious, but this is 10 years plan.

I would not cross an ocean on a Grand Banks. I might cross one in a Kady Krogen after putting on storm window covers and maybe improving down flooding risk.

Don’t know enough to comment on the Selene and Fleming. Somewhere in between a GB and a Nordhavn I suspect, closer to the GB in ocean crossing capability.

David

 

[Hippocampus]

David’s get it. But would add one thing. Sailboat cruisers talk about “life on a slant”. Yes it’s annoying but you get use to it. Upside the blue water versions are designed from the get go for that. Floor boards are secured so even with inversion they won’t come lose. Lockers are lockable and not dependent upon gravity to stay closed. Large open spaces are avoided so fall risk inside the boat is decreased and decreased further by an abundance of hand holds. Outside you can clip your tether everywhere and move around on a jackline. Some think sailboats are more seaworthy. That isn’t universally true. There’s a huge difference between a good blue water sailboat and a coastal cruiser. Even goes down to rigging. A sloop has less options. A inmast roller furling main won’t point. A in boom main is secured by only one line. Both are complex and if the mandrill bends are out of service. Both are commonly avoided by blue water sailors.
But the biggest difference between small power and sail is comfort in a seaway. Even with stabilizing techniques the motion of a sailboat is different than power. The sailboat will heel and heel more or less but it’s in one axis. It’s always on one side of midline. Yes there’s pitch and heave but the motion is slower and more rhythmic. Studies show people are divided into those more sensitive to fast movements or slow. Some are more intolerant to the slow movements of a ship. Others the quick jerky motions of a planing hull in chop. Yes some folks are more tolerant of both but NASA and USN studies show everyone has a limit to their tolerance. Seems on boats corkscrewing is the least tolerable movement. You have roll, heave and pitch all at once. Sailboats can easily avoid that spot in a far reach where that occurs. Power boats have a wider angle of attack where they are prone to that motion.
My wife and I are lucky and can remain functional in a seaway but find swells aren’t a problem moving around and working the boat. Even 10-15’ on a sailboat stabilized by keel weight and wind will heave and pitch but motions are gradual unless you’re on a multi or ultralight. It’s the sudden non rhythmic movements that make it hard moving around or doing things with your hands. Find those motions are more common on powerboats even if stabilized. It more tiring to be on a powerboat for me if a sea is running. Especially if several wave trains are intersecting from different angles. SD hulls are worse for this such as GB or my boat. But still FD power isn’t as comfortable as blue water sail.

 

[Hippocampus]

TT has made a very strong, cogent case for heavy full displacement power in his posts. He did so in response to my pointing out the remarkable efficiency of LDL boats and how some are self righting and incredibly sturdy. Phil Lambert (prior owner of Outbound Yachts) is now marketing a grp coastal LDL which given its wave piercing and LOA at speed is a very comfortable ride in a coastal setting. However just like the destroyers of old on a beam sea or sharp turn can roll some. This can be mitigated some with the various types of stabilization but boats move in three axises. Stabilizing methods only deal with one-roll. So end of day it’s more comfortable to be on a big heavy full displacement boat power or sail than a lighter craft power or sail. Motion tends to be slower and wind waves have less effect.

 

[Mac2]

So end of day it’s more comfortable to be on a big heavy full displacement boat power or sail than a lighter craft power or sail. Motion tends to be slower and wind waves have less effect.

Totally agree. I would add that this comes into play while at anchor as well. I anchor in places now I would never have considered in the past (90 ton vs 11 ton-previous boat). Instead of a sharp rocking motion when hit by wakes or swell, the motion is a nice slow predictable roll.

 

[dhays]

Thank you, David, for this check list. What do you think about Grand Banks? I did like Selene too and of course Fleming. My plan is going again to Alaska, then big U, then handing in Caribbeans, then cross Atlantic to Mediterranean's and so on - would like to end up in my parents' home, Finland... I know this is pretty ambitious, but this is 10 years plan.

Grand Banks are lovely boats but I would not venture offshore in one.
I wouldn't do it in my current boat either.

I suggest you charter before you buy. You can charter in a variety of areas and have a nice vacation while learning what you like and dislike about the boats.

 

[bowball]

Grand Banks are lovely boats but I would not venture offshore in one.
I wouldn't do it in my current boat either.

I suggest you charter before you buy. You can charter in a variety of areas and have a nice vacation while learning what you like and dislike about the boats.

Same with the Fleming (unless you are talking about the 78/85). Wonderful boats for coastal cruising - my preference over the Nordhavn's for that - but their mission is not blue water ocean crossing, and they don't make all the compromises required to handle the extremes that can occur for that mission.

 

[SteveK]

After owning over 25 sailing vessels and logging well over 100,000 miles (mostly offshore) my wife and I bought our first trawler a year ago. It helped that it had been to Hawaii and back to Victoria, BC, employing paravane stabilizers (like commercial fishing vessels). That said, when crossing the Georgia Strait a few weeks ago in nasty weather, the motion in the trawler did not compare to a well found sailboat of the same size. Quite uncomfortable!

We were in that same washing machine crossing. Not forecasted and very local. I counted waves from 3 directions. Yet once inside porlier pass it was flat calm.

 

[SIBERNUT]

Geez, can't we re-name this
"Moving UP to a trawler" ?

 

[sledge]

Agree with last comment and add: Fleming is beautiful boat but would not cross blue water with it for a couple reasons; they are twin un-protected props and the fuel burn is much too high, it is not a full displacement hull.
Someone suggested Elling E6; agree those are very unique and interesting, we've been aboard a couple of E4s and fairly impressed. They're from Denmark but getting more common in the USA.

 

[stuchizik]

Hello all. I’m new to the Trawler world and am eager to glean the knowledge and experience contained on this Forum. I own an Amel 50 sailing yacht (currently in Montenegro) and am in the market to jump ship to the other side, as they say. Been looking at class A ocean going trawlers and am circling around the Nordhavn and Selene. Somewhere between 50 and 60’. Still have lots of learning to do. I’ll be at the Baltimore Trawler fest this September 2024. Cheers.

We have an N46’ very reliable and comfortable boat. 1250g fuel from Oahu to Ensenada-2550nm+ short diversion for fuel transfer and weather.
We now charter her out with crew in Puerto Vallarta, incase you’re interested in trialing one for a while.