Are you using a Bridle with your anchoring setup?

[caltexflanc]

Speaking of splices, you guys that use prusiks or rolling hitches should try soft shackles also; you might be surprised how quick and easy it is. As Hippo points out, that can be important if you need to adjust or remove it in a hurry.

I can tie and untie a rolling hitch pretty darn fast, and with gloves on at that; threading a soft shackle through a chain link, no way. Very difficult for me even without gloves, not being possessed with good fine motor skills. Maybe for something more permanent like replacing the metal shackles in my pictured rig.

 

[DCDC]

We used rolling hitches for many years on our sailboat but started using the Mantus hook for Stella after we had to use a spike or knife to remove it from the chain. Maybe higher loading due to more windage and 3X displacement?

Also use prussiks for various situations but it seems inconvenient as you still have a closed loop. Tie a bowline or other knot to it?

 

[rslifkin]

For the prusik, I'll often just use a dock line with a spliced eye. Mildly annoying to pull the 25 foot line through, but a single wrap holds fine on chain (need 2 on line). It's all one piece which keeps things simple. And if I damage it, more cheap dock lines are easy to obtain.

 

[BruceK]

Ah-hah, that makes sense now. Thanks.

There are 2 sizes, if memory serves 1/4-3/8, 3/8-1/2". Mine came from USA, can`t recall the Seller, maybe HF.

 

[HeadedToTexas]

Beautiful. Thanks Bruce.

 

[caltexflanc]

We used rolling hitches for many years on our sailboat but started using the Mantus hook for Stella after we had to use a spike or knife to remove it from the chain. Maybe higher loading due to more windage and 3X displacement?

I 'm having a hard time visualizing that. The pressure side of hitch is up stream of the "locking" part. I don't recall having issues releasing one after the pictured blow, or when we rode on one with our Hatteras 56MY (of similar heft and more windage than Stella it looks like) for a couple days in a constant 25-35 blow. What kind of line were you using?

 

[DCDC]

What kind of line were you using?

Tried two variations: 3/4” double braid nylon rolling hitch and 3/8” dyneema prusik.

 

[caltexflanc]

Tried two variations: 3/4” double braid nylon rolling hitch and 3/8” dyneema prusik.

Thanks, I can (slightly) better understand why they jammed.

But why those? The whole idea of a snubber is to introduce stretch. Still, a rolling hitch puts little-to-no tightening on the bight where the bitter end goes through.

 

[mdstrum]

Been a boat owner 35 years and never did until 2 years ago, and ALWAYS DO...have the mantis, is changes the entire ride of our boat at anchor and absolutely reduces so many drag issues (we have not dragged since...HUGE FAN, wish I would tried it sooner.

 

[psneeld]

I would love to know how a bridle over say a single snubber reduces drag issues.


Other than reducing yawing, but if a bridle doesn't reduce that then how?

 

[rslifkin]

I would love to know how a bridle over say a single snubber reduces drag issues.


Other than reducing yawing, but if a bridle doesn't reduce that then how?

I would expect it's due to reduced yawing. But whether or not a bridle reduces yawing will depend on the boat, available attachment points and other factors.

 

[FlyWright]

Almost always use a single, light weight, single snubber because 90 percent of the time thats all that's needed. If weather changes, I can add or change to what " might" be needed.

But that's me and my current boat, others may need something different. Experimentation results in knowing rather than taking possibly advice that may not work for you.

I use a Davis Instruments Anchor Shockle and two LineGrabbers preset on my chain at 90 and 120 ft. Beyond 130 ft, the rode is 5/8 8-ply Brait that gets cleated to relieve the windlass.

 

[psneeld]

I would expect it's due to reduced yawing. But whether or not a bridle reduces yawing will depend on the boat, available attachment points and other factors.

I know as I stated that.... it was the "so many issues" that I am curious about.

 

[rslifkin]

I know as I stated that.... it was the "so many issues" that I am curious about.

The other time I'd use a bridle rather than a single line snubber on my own boat is if expecting really heavy weather. A single snubber goes over the roller to the center bitt, but a bridle would go to the bow cleats instead, taking the load off the pulpit and roller. The assembly is strong, but in really bad weather, I'd rather put the load right into the well backed cleats. In anything from good weather to fairly bad weather, I trust the pulpit and roller assembly.


Plus, if one leg of the bridle fails, I haven't lost all snubbing (although the other leg will likely fail soon). So I've at least got a few minutes to do something about it before things are getting shock loaded and starting to get ugly.

 

[Coalman]

Bridle use

All-chain rode.. Always a snubber at least. Bridle if conditions warrant.

Thanks for comments everyone. We are new to boating and have anchored out only a. Few dozen times. We have a Monk36 trawler, full canopy with a lot of windage.

We use all chain about 100’ under most conditions and depths. We always snub off to Sampson post before backing into anchor and after anchor is set for the night. Ok, that’s what we do for reference.

After reading your comments I think I will lengthen the snubber line to +/- 15’ and allow slack in anchor chain, leaving snubber line to take load off the windlass.

Does this sound ok, am I asking for trouble or is there a better way,

Rick
Elaine May

 

[rslifkin]

Thanks for comments everyone. We are new to boating and have anchored out only a. Few dozen times. We have a Monk36 trawler, full canopy with a lot of windage.

We use all chain about 100’ under most conditions and depths. We always snub off to Sampson post before backing into anchor and after anchor is set for the night. Ok, that’s what we do for reference.

After reading your comments I think I will lengthen the snubber line to +/- 15’ and allow slack in anchor chain, leaving snubber line to take load off the windlass.

Does this sound ok, am I asking for trouble or is there a better way,

Rick
Elaine May

That's a good plan. I like to adjust the slack in the chain so it limits the snubber to about 20 - 25% stretch. That'll generally minimize the risk of snubber failure, and if you start stretching the chain tight, it's time for a heavier and longer snubber.



I also like to cleat the chain off on the samson post (if there's no chain stopper) so that if the snubber fails, the windlass doesn't take the load.

 

[JohnEasley]

For a "lunch stop," no. For any overnight stop, a snubber is always deployed. They're fast, easy peace of mind.

 

[psneeld]

The other time I'd use a bridle rather than a single line snubber on my own boat is if expecting really heavy weather. A single snubber goes over the roller to the center bitt, but a bridle would go to the bow cleats instead, taking the load off the pulpit and roller. The assembly is strong, but in really bad weather, I'd rather put the load right into the well backed cleats. In anything from good weather to fairly bad weather, I trust the pulpit and roller assembly.


Plus, if one leg of the bridle fails, I haven't lost all snubbing (although the other leg will likely fail soon). So I've at least got a few minutes to do something about it before things are getting shock loaded and starting to get ugly.

I know all that too...but it doesn't answer my question how a bridle reduces all sorts of dragging issues.


Breaking a weak pulpit, weak samson post or chafing is not the question...I get all those and they are not directly related to dragging in my mind. Certainly to be aware of though.

 

[Simi 60]

I would love to know how a bridle over say a single snubber reduces drag issues.


Other than reducing yawing, but if a bridle doesn't reduce that then how?

We have tried a bridle
Yawing was not reduced at least not for us
But we did have bridle ropes wrapping around paint and figured there would be eventual damage
Went back to single snubber.

Never had a single snubber break and we anchor daily and see 40knots + weather several times a year.

 

[backinblue]

I know all that too...but it doesn't answer my question how a bridle reduces all sorts of dragging issues.


Breaking a weak pulpit, weak samson post or chafing is not the question...I get all those and they are not directly related to dragging in my mind. Certainly to be aware of though.

IMO, it CAN reduce dragging issues if it supplies some stretch in the rode. If the snubber is a sufficient length of nylon that it supplies some shock absorption vs. all chain, it may help prevent the anchor from getting jerked loose. It doesn't help prevent dragging per se, just a little less likely your anchor will break free and re-set, or worst case, break free and not re-set!

 

[psneeld]

IMO, it CAN reduce dragging issues if it supplies some stretch in the rode. If the snubber is a sufficient length of nylon that it supplies some shock absorption vs. all chain, it may help prevent the anchor from getting jerked loose. It doesn't help prevent dragging per se, just a little less likely your anchor will break free and re-set, or worst case, break free and not re-set!

Again...good bridle, good snubber or right amount of all chain will prevent shock loads that may break an anchor out...so again....how does a bridle "absolutely reduces so many drag issues" that other things don't?

 

[dirtdoc1]

I always use a bridle. My bridle adds about 10-15' of scope and since it attaches much lower on the chain, (about 10' below water surface) puts more chain on the bottom increasing the holding.

For some reason North Pacific likes to use a smooth roller. Because of that, the chain flops around while under tension, which creates a heck of a thumping noise. The bridle gets rid of that very annoying noise that makes it impossible for me to get a good night sleep. Whenever you hear a loud thump while at anchor it's usually not a good thing.

 

[psneeld]

I agree about all chain not being great all the time...but I use a snubber and not a bridle...does the same for me and I find it much simpler on my boat.


I think the consensus thinks one or the other is useful, but have yet to hear how a bridle solves much more than a single snubber.

 

[MV Caroline]

I have 100' 5/8 chain and 400' 1/2' stainless cable. with proper 5:1 rode, I do not experience any jerking or sailing on the hook. I also have a small steadying sail I can keep up if necessary which always keeps me head to wind.

 

[backinblue]

I have 100' 5/8 chain and 400' 1/2' stainless cable. with proper 5:1 rode, I do not experience any jerking or sailing on the hook. I also have a small steadying sail I can keep up if necessary which always keeps me head to wind.

A riding sail is a great thing if one can be fitted. Some boats are a challenge. Have you never been in wind that would pull the chain tight? In that condition, something has to give if a wave hits or you are sailing a bit at anchor.

For those not using a snubber or bridle, I assume you are at least taking the load off the windlass in another manner? A snubber is not a perfect thing, but it sure is easy to use.

 

[MV Caroline]

I reall don't need to take the load off my windlass. I have a way oversized commercial hydraulic reel windlass mounted so as to be the strongest part of the boat. The deck is 1 1/2" plus and additionally the windlass is through-bolted using a 3/8" ss backing plate. the 6 Bolts themselves are 3/4".
I find the weight of the rode scope allows for gentle surging which keeps the
boat comfortable in most situations. Caroline is heavy, being fully ballasted and drawing almost nine feet, lots of fuel ( 1600 Gal) and 600 gallons of fresh water all in integral tanks down low.

 

[amapola]

We have all chain so we always use a snubber.

 

[backinblue]

I reall don't need to take the load off my windlass. I have a way oversized commercial hydraulic reel windlass mounted so as to be the strongest part of the boat. The deck is 1 1/2" plus and additionally the windlass is through-bolted using a 3/8" ss backing plate. the 6 Bolts themselves are 3/4".
I find the weight of the rode scope allows for gentle surging which keeps the
boat comfortable in most situations. Caroline is heavy, being fully ballasted and drawing almost nine feet, lots of fuel ( 1600 Gal) and 600 gallons of fresh water all in integral tanks down low.

Sounds like you are in unusually good shape. I don't think I would worry if I was you either.

 

[caltexflanc]

I reall don't need to take the load off my windlass. I have a way oversized commercial hydraulic reel windlass mounted so as to be the strongest part of the boat. The deck is 1 1/2" plus and additionally the windlass is through-bolted using a 3/8" ss backing plate. the 6 Bolts themselves are 3/4".
I find the weight of the rode scope allows for gentle surging which keeps the
boat comfortable in most situations. Caroline is heavy, being fully ballasted and drawing almost nine feet, lots of fuel ( 1600 Gal) and 600 gallons of fresh water all in integral tanks down low.

That's interesting; you have a completely different windlass situation than 99% of us. On your particular reel, what happens in a big blow and the chain is taut?
Anyway,sound a like a cool setup. Pics?

Back to the bridle vs snubber brouhaha, as a user and liker of both I'll submit the following, as to bridle benefits, much of which has been already said:

1) redundancy" if one line chafes through or otherwise fails, you now have a snubber. Whereas,
2) If you run your snubber through the anchor chute, you are very prone to chafe. But I on pulpits I interacted with, running the snubber from a bow cleat and attaching it to the chain was pretty easy but,
3) with snubber off bow cleat, you now have a different dynamic twixt boat and rode vs straight off; that said people without pulpits, chutes or windlasses have been running anchor rodes off a bow cleat for decades, if not centuries.

Note also note FWIW that with a bridle, the boat will be laying to one of the two lines more often than not, horsing a bit between one and the other. You need some stronger wind or very strong current to lay to both.

 

[Simi 60]

or right amount of all chain will prevent shock loads that may break an anchor out

To a point
Put us in a bit of current, all chain at 5:1 and we will still lift the chain and be pulling hard
20+ knots of wind and the same as we vere off to the sides

Reality is there would still be chain on the bottom but there are loads none the less and I'd rather that be on disposable nylon with some stretch vs expensive windlass and breakable parts.