twistedtree
Guru
This is why I was asking about the model and wiring diagram. I think he has a different model xfmr that does not have the taps.
Boost Volts from 208 to 230
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today I took a voltmeter to the shorepower pedestal... L1 to ground is 120, L2 to ground is 120, L1 to L2 is 208. That goes into a Charles Isolation transformer:
Charles Industries Model # 93-IXFMR12T-A
Input Connection
Input between L1-L2
Shore grounding to SH
volts 240VAC
Amps 50amps
Output connection
Output between L1-L2
Neutral to N
Boat grounding to GND
Volts 120/240VAC
Amps 50amps
12 KVA continuous
240 High Voltage
120/240 Low Voltage
% IMP. 3.0
Class H
Single Phase 50/60 HZ
So the Charles wants 240v right? My 120v outlets are getting half the 208 at 104.
I am trying to understand how I can fix this. Options range from the cheaper buck boost and bridgeport magnetics options to a more experience isolation boost transformer such as the 12.5kva one from ANG.
Can the shorepower pedestal be wired differently to get me 240 instead of 208? Can the Charles be wired differently to get me 240 instead of 208? Would a 30 amp to 50 amp reverse Y to fix or will that reduce my overall amps? If I use a buck boost or bridgeport magnetics puck, does that solve the issue? What happens to my 120v loads in those cases? The buck boost from Larson says:
"While there are many benefits to a buck/boost transformer, there are some limitations to consider. This transformer will only transformer voltage, it will not convert phases, it will not create even legs between line 1 and line 2 (L1 and L2 WILL be UNEVEN), has no circuit isolation, and does not create a neutral for applications where a neutral is not already present. If any of these limitations apply to you, you will need a standard transformer."
Charles Industries Model # 93-IXFMR12T-A
Input Connection
Input between L1-L2
Shore grounding to SH
volts 240VAC
Amps 50amps
Output connection
Output between L1-L2
Neutral to N
Boat grounding to GND
Volts 120/240VAC
Amps 50amps
12 KVA continuous
240 High Voltage
120/240 Low Voltage
% IMP. 3.0
Class H
Single Phase 50/60 HZ
So the Charles wants 240v right? My 120v outlets are getting half the 208 at 104.
I am trying to understand how I can fix this. Options range from the cheaper buck boost and bridgeport magnetics options to a more experience isolation boost transformer such as the 12.5kva one from ANG.
Can the shorepower pedestal be wired differently to get me 240 instead of 208? Can the Charles be wired differently to get me 240 instead of 208? Would a 30 amp to 50 amp reverse Y to fix or will that reduce my overall amps? If I use a buck boost or bridgeport magnetics puck, does that solve the issue? What happens to my 120v loads in those cases? The buck boost from Larson says:
"While there are many benefits to a buck/boost transformer, there are some limitations to consider. This transformer will only transformer voltage, it will not convert phases, it will not create even legs between line 1 and line 2 (L1 and L2 WILL be UNEVEN), has no circuit isolation, and does not create a neutral for applications where a neutral is not already present. If any of these limitations apply to you, you will need a standard transformer."
tiltrider1
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First I am not familiar with your current isolation transformer. So I do not know what can be done there.
I do not know what your 240v demands are. In my case the only 240v demand is my dryer. The rest of my boat is 120v. If your situation is similar, you can remove the isolation transformer from the circuit. You could then run the boat the boat on two separate 120v buses of 50 amps each. (The 104v issues goes away when you re introduce the neutral) You could then add a boosting transformer just for the dryer taking a 30amp 120v circuit and boosting it to a 240v 15amp circuit for the one appliance.
If you have multiple 240v demands this might not be a practical solution.
Another direction would be to replace your transformer with a boosting capable unit and wire in a 208v/240v switch.
There is nothing you can do at the pedestal to fix your issue.
The use of Y adapter will just lower you to 104v at 60amps instead of 100amps.
I do not know what your 240v demands are. In my case the only 240v demand is my dryer. The rest of my boat is 120v. If your situation is similar, you can remove the isolation transformer from the circuit. You could then run the boat the boat on two separate 120v buses of 50 amps each. (The 104v issues goes away when you re introduce the neutral) You could then add a boosting transformer just for the dryer taking a 30amp 120v circuit and boosting it to a 240v 15amp circuit for the one appliance.
If you have multiple 240v demands this might not be a practical solution.
Another direction would be to replace your transformer with a boosting capable unit and wire in a 208v/240v switch.
There is nothing you can do at the pedestal to fix your issue.
The use of Y adapter will just lower you to 104v at 60amps instead of 100amps.
tiltrider1
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Twistedtree is much more up to date on isolation transformers of this size than I am. Hopefully he will jump in here with some ideas for you.
twistedtree
Guru
What is "ANG"?
I don't see any boosting capability in the Bridgeport based on what's on their web site, but someone posted info that suggests they do have that capability. If there is more info available I'd be happy to look at it.
I think my earlier post outlines your two options. Add an inline boosting transformer, or switch to an isolating transformer that has boost windings.
twistedtree
Guru
I think this will do the job as an inline boost transformer for about $1700 https://www.larsonelectronics.com/p...primary-240v-secondary-46-8-a-50-60hz-15-cord
And a Hubbell/Acme replacement isolation transformer that can be wired with a switch to select 208 or 240V input is about $4000.
And a Hubbell/Acme replacement isolation transformer that can be wired with a switch to select 208 or 240V input is about $4000.
tiltrider1
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That inline boosting transformer looks like a pretty simple solution.
SailorGreg
Senior Member
Check out the boost kit from Nauti-boost. The kit retrofits the Charles and other non-boosting transformers.
I have had the kit for 5 years, added to a Charles isolator. Works well
I have had the kit for 5 years, added to a Charles isolator. Works well
I am actually seeing prices about double that if not more.. Looking at ANG, Hubbell, ISO-Boost aka Aquamare
Thanks their website seems to imply it only works with boost capable models and the literature says "Compatible with any transformer any brand with boost coils. Also compatible with all Iso-boost transformers and other Charles products isolation transformer." but I'm asking them...
I guess a better question might be how does one add "boost coils" can a transformer without them be retrofit with them...
I have the ANG iso boost (12.5kw) and a couple of weekends ago was on 100+ foot of power cord and the only way you would have known it is by the little LED on it that said boost. 120/240 to my appliances. I'm sure there are other brands that work just as well.
No problem with 208V unit will boost from 178V. Shuts off power below that or over 253V. As others have said you need to reduce loads on very low voltage as the power is constant so available current at 240V from a 208V supply is way lower than 50 amps.
No problem with 208V unit will boost from 178V. Shuts off power below that or over 253V. As others have said you need to reduce loads on very low voltage as the power is constant so available current at 240V from a 208V supply is way lower than 50 amps.
twistedtree
Guru
Many companies, including Charles when they were still in the business, and now Hubbell/Acme have two offerings.
At the heart of both offerings is a transformer with connection points that lets you wire it for either 240V or 208V incoming voltage. Such a transformer will cost in the $2000 to $4000 range. Here is one available from Fisheries for $2300 Hubbell HBL50AITW | Fisheries Supply I see it from other's for as little as $1700.
Because there are different connection points depending on the 208 vs 240V input, you need to wire the transformer with a switch that let's you select which arrangement to use. It will need to be a 50A switch, so might cost another $100 or more.
The fancy versions that cost $5000-$10000 use the exact same transformer, but add circuitry and switches to automatically detect the shore voltage and switch the wiring accordingly. So it's an automated switch, not a manual switch, and you pay a lot for it. The Charles IsoBoost was like this back when. And Hubbell offers a similar product, as do others from the references in this thread. When you see expensive units, this is likely what you are seeing.
Thanks, I already have a Charles isolation transformer. the one you linked to seems to be about the same? the issue is mine is not boost capable nor is the one that you linked to from what I see. the boost capable hubbell is much more expensive. the ANG would make more sense.
twistedtree
Guru
The one I linked can be wired for boost/normal with an external, manual selector switch.
I agree that the Charles that you have now can not be wired with an external boost/normal selector switch. There is a different model Charles that can be so wired, as can the Hubbell that I linked. I am using the 50/60hz version of the Hubbell with an external boost/normal selector.
So I called an electrical supplier to order and they are telling me I dont want 208 to 240 11kva such as the larson: https://www.larsonelectronics.com/p...-primary-240v-secondary-at-46-8-amps-50-60hz? And instead I need: 1.5 kVA, 1-phase, 120/240 VAC primary, 16/32 VAC secondary such as Acme T113074? They are telling me I dont understand how buck boosters work. I think they are trying to say 208+32 = 240? They sent me this PDF: https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static/manuals/acme/a22497k.pdf and told me to look at the 208 to 240 column and it shows T-1-13074 is the right one....
twistedtree
Guru
I think the two manufacturers (Larson and Acme/Hubbell) are just describing the transformers differently. Larson describes it in terms of the input and output voltages (208/240) and the total load that it can support (11kva, 46A@240), where Acme describes it in terms of the boost voltage increase (32V) and associated kva (1.5kva, 46A@32V). I think they are equivalent.
