Case in point on boat prices today

[BandB]

Very few of current crop of 20s and 30s year olds have any interest in cruising and you no longer see the 2 footitis of prior generations. .

20's, 30's, and 40's were never cruisers. They have to work. They boat on weekends and what little vacation time they get.

 

[rslifkin]

20's, 30's, and 40's were never cruisers. They have to work. They boat on weekends and what little vacation time they get.

This is slowly changing with more remote work opportunities. We're bit by bit working towards being able to travel more without having to be on vacation to do it. The last 2 week trip we took was about 50% vacation, 50% working for me.

 

[Seevee]

Markets are driven by fear and greed. Emotional participants forget the certain loss of inflation and the possible loss of capital in investing.

There will always be a future downturn. How much upside is missed before then?

And supply and demand.

 

[Seevee]

20's, 30's, and 40's were never cruisers. They have to work. They boat on weekends and what little vacation time they get.

BandB,


Well, there's been plenty of 20's, 30's and 40's that were cruisers, or had enough excess dollars to do a lot of things. You and I both were. Maybe not the 20s. But by the time I was 30 I was already on my second boat, and third plane and could take a 3 or 4 day weekend every other week, being self employed. Been getting better ever since. I'm certainly not rich, and many of my friends were in the same "boat." Now, the guy with a 9 to 5 job had it a bit harder, but some had a LOT of flexibility.

Perhaps not the norm, but there's lot of folks that have.


The point is that one CAN enjoy the benefits of life early on, perhaps on a small scale. Just save and spend appropriately.

 

[mvweebles]

For goodness sake. Unless a person is born with the silver spoon up you know where - LOL...

Someone once asked Malcolm Forbes the quickest path to wealth.

His response? "Nepotism!"

 

[kthoennes]

You know in lots of threads like this someone will almost always mention that the current generation of young boaters (if they're boaters at all) aren't cruisers and aren't into the cost, maintenance burden and time commitment for bigger boats so eventually prices and the market will tank. Every time I read that I think to myself, I wasn't a power cruiser or trawler person either when I was young. Didn't have the time, money, or the interest. In my 20-something and 30-something mind I was all into sail and sailing around the world with Tania Aebi in her 27-footer (in my imagination I mean, never met her, although I was in New York on a college summer break when she sailed off 1985). Then you grow up, you get married, you have kids, you make money, and decide that boating while heeled over at 20* running around to tack back and forth like a gerbil while constantly salt-wet, gets a little bothersome after a while.

They're not there yet, but I'm pretty confident they'll be there when their time comes. I'm pretty sure we'll still be able to sell the boat to somebody for a decent price when the time comes.

 

[ABfish]

20's, 30's, and 40's were never cruisers. They have to work. They boat on weekends and what little vacation time they get.

So true. In my 30's and 40's and early 50's, my time was split between work, kids and offshore fishing from small boats. I did not have the extra funds or time to spend on a cruising boat. That's true of most of my peers, regardless of how successful they've become.

 

[Seevee]

Yes, true, when young most don't have a ton of money or time to do things. But we make choices when limited. So, wife, kids, activities, job, boat or other toys.



Some want a big family which can be a full time job and a lot of dollars until they're out of the house. Some have smaller or no family and have the boat or other toys, and some do a combination of the above. It's just choices, money and priorities.



Doesn't mean you can't have a boat, but gotta make some choices.

 

[RCook]

We were lucky enough to discover affordable cruising in a C-Dory 22, when I was 44 and spouse 34. While still working we did many 2-4-week cruising vacations, and one sabbatical long enough for a 2-month SE Alaska trip. Were we hooked? Absolutely! Bigger boat and longer trips after I retired. Nicer creature comforts, but not more fun.

 

[Slowmo]

Boating when you're in you're young (i.e. below 50!) is a matter of priorities. My father's family had cruised the PNW since 1916. In 1950, despite buying a house and a ranch and starting his dental practice, my father also bought an surplus navy hull, got a struggling young naval architect named William Garden to design a conversion, and had boat for cruising built. He did much of the interior work himself and it wasn't fancy but it allowed my siblings and I to cruise extensively while growing up. He always said it was a matter of priority and he prioritized time on the boat. Of course he worked for himself (as a dentist) and could arrange his schedule to have blocks of time on the boat. By the time he was 50 they were spending all of July and August aboard (with a brief return to home to check on business). Of course in later life he could have afforded a much fancier boat, but by then he didn't want one. He loved the old boat and the memories the family had on it. Also, his upbringing during the depression also made him frugal, he never wasted money on trying to impress anyone else. He didn't need to. So unlike much of the younger generation that appears to think that spending money virtue signaling is actually virtuous.

 

[FWT]

Demographics:

I heard an interesting presentation on this some years back. The point was made that Harley's are sold to 50 year old white collar professional men. When there is a mini-bulge in that group coming of age, sales do well. When there is a draught of them, sales suffer.


Edited to add:

You can pick the age bracket you think might drive trawler sales. But sticking with the top 40% of income folks, there is growth in the 65-75 age group, but bigger bulges behind them in 55-65 and 45-55

 

[socalrider]

Yeah the advantage of being young is you have time and an incredible tolerance for discomfort.

I rode a Kawasaki KLR650 10,000 miles from NY to the jungles of Central America over 14 months from 1999-2000 & spent about $5,000 on the whole trip, including the purchase/sale of the bike.

I think a lot of younger people are interested in boats as livaboards - just like the VanLife movement. It's an expensive hobby but a pretty cheap house compared to other available options. A small sailboat shared among friends is still pretty affordable.

 

[backinblue]

We were lucky enough to discover affordable cruising in a C-Dory 22, when I was 44 and spouse 34. While still working we did many 2-4-week cruising vacations, and one sabbatical long enough for a 2-month SE Alaska trip. Were we hooked? Absolutely! Bigger boat and longer trips after I retired. Nicer creature comforts, but not more fun.

I love the last line of your post. My boating life is hopefully far from over and may include another boat or 2, who knows. But when I look back on my life, the most "fun" will not be the biggest and most comfortable boat that I owned, but most likely the adventures I went on when I was younger in mostly unprotected sailboats.

 

[backinblue]

Yeah the advantage of being young is you have time and an incredible tolerance for discomfort.

I rode a Kawasaki KLR650 10,000 miles from NY to the jungles of Central America over 14 months from 1999-2000 & spent about $5,000 on the whole trip, including the purchase/sale of the bike.

I think a lot of younger people are interested in boats as livaboards - just like the VanLife movement. It's an expensive hobby but a pretty cheap house compared to other available options. A small sailboat shared among friends is still pretty affordable.

Tolerance for discomfort is a huge thing. My son will fly half way around the world in economy cabin and sleep in a hostel to visit some country he finds interesting. Not something I would want to tolerate now. My loss in some ways I'm sure.

 

[kthoennes]

...my father also bought an surplus navy hull, got a struggling young naval architect named William Garden to design a conversion, and had boat for cruising built. [CLIP] ...Of course in later life he could have afforded a much fancier boat, but by then he didn't want one. He loved the old boat and the memories the family had on it. Also, his upbringing during the depression also made him frugal, he never wasted money on trying to impress anyone else. He didn't need to. So unlike much of the younger generation that appears to think that spending money virtue signaling is actually virtuous.

That is a great story, I admire your dad. My grandfather was similar, started as a baker covered with flour when he landed in the US and by the time I was born he was a real estate tycoon. I remember he'd visit his construction and development projects in an AMC Rambler wagon that was so beaten up one door was tied closed with rope. And he paid my brother and I a penny for each dropped nail we recovered on his job sites.

I understand that financial mindset too -- we could relatively easily afford a bigger, nicer boat, but the current one works very well for us and not writing a very large check for the initial purchase makes the maintenance and annual improvement costs that much easier to handle. As it is now the boat is a source of pleasure and family time, not a huge financial ball and chain that pressures our balance sheet. I do read the custom-build threads on here and I do get envious, or we go to boat shows and see all the spanky new boats, but on balance, we're okay as-is.

 

[backinblue]

Demographics:

I heard an interesting presentation on this some years back. The point was made that Harley's are sold to 50 year old white collar professional men. When there is a mini-bulge in that group coming of age, sales do well. When there is a draught of them, sales suffer.

At a time when motorcycle sales are increasing, much like boats partly due to COVID, Harley sale are declining steadily. I could see the same happening with trawlers in the future. As younger generations age, they may not be content with the slow speed of trawlers. The appeal of a heavy slow motorcycle is not what it used to be. Could trawlers follow that trend, who knows?

 

[EngNate]

There is hope. In 3-5 years I will want to sell my boat to retire, as it won't be feasible to bring it with me. It is bound to be a buyer's market again by that time!

 

[thataway]

Our story is a little different, but based on the do it now theory. I am a physician, so I saw the death and infirmary which came often way too young. We had a break in our lives, where we felt it was "The time, just in case" to do a significant cruise. We took 4 years out of our lives to cruise Calif to Europe and back when I was 45 to 49 years of age, and my wife about 8 years younger. It was prime earning years, but the loss was better than never having done our dream. My family history was heart attacks at age 50 in most males.

We came back--and I had my first heart attack at age 50. If I had not been in the hospital having tests done, I would have not survived the total occlusion of my left anterior descending coronary artery. It just happened that the only cardiologist doing angioplasties at that time in Long Beach, CA. got to me in about half an hour. Down the line I have cheated the devil a number of times and am still active at age 85 after 2 bypasses, multiple stents and angioplasties.

Partly because of health issues (failed back) I retired at age 56, and we were able to cruise Alaska for 4 seasons, plus a 3rd transit of the Panama Canal to bring us to Pensacola, fl, where we have lived for the last 30 years. If we had not taken the trip to Europe when we did--it would have never happened.

By the grace of God, I have lived to age 85, and at last have to give up any major boating, even running a 25' C Dory, as we cruised many of the inland rivers and lakes in our older age.

I say do it while you can! You never know what comes next both in health and wealth. You don't have to spend $ a million or ever $400,000 to find a satisfactory boat. In fact we feel that a boat which needs work, and you put in the systems is more desirable. If you built the system, you can fix the system when it breaks (as it will). When cruising we lived a frugal life, living on the local economy, anchoring out, and avoiding marinas most of the time.

 

[backinblue]

Our story is a little different, but based on the do it now theory. I am a physician, so I saw the death and infirmary which came often way too young. We had a break in our lives, where we felt it was "The time, just in case" to do a significant cruise. We took 4 years out of our lives to cruise Calif to Europe and back when I was 45 to 49 years of age, and my wife about 8 years younger. It was prime earning years, but the loss was better than never having done our dream. My family history was heart attacks at age 50 in most males.

We came back--and I had my first heart attack at age 50. If I had not been in the hospital having tests done, I would have not survived the total occlusion of my left anterior descending coronary artery. It just happened that the only cardiologist doing angioplasties at that time in Long Beach, CA. got to me in about half an hour. Down the line I have cheated the devil a number of times and am still active at age 85 after 2 bypasses, multiple stents and angioplasties.

Partly because of health issues (failed back) I retired at age 56, and we were able to cruise Alaska for 4 seasons, plus a 3rd transit of the Panama Canal to bring us to Pensacola, fl, where we have lived for the last 30 years. If we had not taken the trip to Europe when we did--it would have never happened.

By the grace of God, I have lived to age 85, and at last have to give up any major boating, even running a 25' C Dory, as we cruised many of the inland rivers and lakes in our older age.

I say do it while you can! You never know what comes next both in health and wealth. You don't have to spend $ a million or ever $400,000 to find a satisfactory boat. In fact we feel that a boat which needs work, and you put in the systems is more desirable. If you built the system, you can fix the system when it breaks (as it will). When cruising we lived a frugal life, living on the local economy, anchoring out, and avoiding marinas most of the time.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but if that heart attack occured when you were on a cruise in some less than convenient place, you probably would not have survived. Glad you got "lucky" in that respect, but in reality, living the dream could have been what killed you. Glad that was not the end of the story! Hope u have many more good years left.

 

[piratenorm]

So I've been looking for a while, biding my time but sometimes you just feel like giving up. Missed the boat so to speak by waiting for things to cool down.

Heres a case in point. I go to various boats sites like yachtworld every day to see what's new. I like the DeFevere 52, nice looking lines etc and came across this one today, a 2014 asking $1,199,000 and having limited pictures I though I would check out soldboats to see if it was listed as sold in the past with better pictures.

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2014-defever-euro-pilothouse-8142928/

So here are the results for this particular boat Anna.

Actual sales price listed in sold boats

2014 $1.027mm
July 2018 $695
March 2020 $685

Now asking $1.199


A 2016 also sold recently, in one day in Hilton Head Island where we just purchased a 60 ft slip in Harbour Town. Hate I missed this one as it was right there.

Nov 2020 $790
Aug 2021 $925

So the boat market is like the housing market, just off the hook with no slowdown in sight. I guess to sum it up I am too cautions with money and not cautious enough with time. I guess I am just going to have to accept that time is running out and just where the value really is. What we have belongs to someone else when we die. Experiences will always be ours. Why am I struggling with this truism.

I brokered a deal last fall on an Ocean 46 MY for just under $100,000 Canadian. The only drive the buyer took was the sea trial before she was hauled and covered for the winter. 4 months later I'm walking into my office at my marina and the buyer yells down from on high, while removing the winter cover "Hey, I want you to list my boat."

"What?" says I. "You only just got it."
"I want to take advantage of the market."
"What? Take advantage of Covid pricing? Of FOMO?" (fear of missing out on the hot boating market)
"Yea, something like that."
"How much do you want me to list it for?" I ask.
"$150,000."
"Nope, not gonna touch it."

"Why not?"
"Because one day the market will settle and the buyer of your boat at that price will realize he spent $50,000. more than the boat was worth. Then their going to be angry and looking for someone to blame, and I don't want to be that guy."
"Any broker would jump at the chance to list it."
To which I replied "Fine, get another broker."
The boat didn't sell and he decided to keep it. Now he won't make eye contact with me. Don't fall prey to FOMO. Caveat emptor.

 

[BandB]

BandB,


Well, there's been plenty of 20's, 30's and 40's that were cruisers, or had enough excess dollars to do a lot of things. You and I both were. Maybe not the 20s. But by the time I was 30 I was already on my second boat, and third plane and could take a 3 or 4 day weekend every other week, being self employed. Been getting better ever since. I'm certainly not rich, and many of my friends were in the same "boat." Now, the guy with a 9 to 5 job had it a bit harder, but some had a LOT of flexibility.

Perhaps not the norm, but there's lot of folks that have.


The point is that one CAN enjoy the benefits of life early on, perhaps on a small scale. Just save and spend appropriately.

Owning a boat doesn't make you a cruiser. My definition of cruiser is taking trips of a month or months or more at a time, long cruises, not weekend and vacation. I spend many days a year on a boat at that age, but wasn't a cruiser until the age of 42 and that was very fortuitous.

 

[backinblue]

"Because one day the market will settle and the buyer of your boat at that price will realize he spent $50,000. more than the boat was worth. Then their going to be angry and looking for someone to blame, and I don't want to be that guy."

No boat has an intrinsic value. A used boat is worth whatever someone will pay for it. So a 100K boat could be worth 150K a few months later if that's what buyers are willing to pay in that market. Conversely, if the market tanks, you can't cross you arms and say that you just paid 100K for the boat a few months ago so you expect it to be worth a similar amount. If nobody will pay more than 50K for it, then that's what it's worth. I don't buy the premise that someone gets screwed for buying a used boat in a hot market. It's whatever the market will bear. In this particular example, yes, your reputation could be questioned since you were the same broker, but if you were honest with the buyer, it shouldn't matter. The buyer will go elsewhere and still pay a premium price in a hot market.

 

[slowgoesit]

Pay up now because tomorrow is not guaranteed.

What does that mean, spend all I have today?

Blue, that's EXACTLY what it means. I'll be happy to provide you with my address via PM so you can send the check!

 

[kthoennes]

Well, whatever it might mean to be a "cruiser," weekender dock queen or zillion-mile Great Looper, as long as the new owner buys my boat for a decent price someday, not my business what they do with it.

 

[SteveK]

What does that mean, spend all I have today?

Of course not! Any surplus money you have now should be invested. I can PM you my email for an E-transfer. I will invest your money for you.

 

[SteveK]

Blue, that's EXACTLY what it means. I'll be happy to provide you with my address via PM so you can send the check!

I charge less for my service. Besides as soon as I convert his money it will be more dollars.

 

[jsbraga]

Anna

I was presented that vessel as well. My answer to the broker, “nope”. Yes he said, it was upgraded. My answer, “nice”.

 

[Slider70]

I commercial fished till I was 68 years old. I loved the fishing and the boating. The boating more. I only stopped as age was making it too painful to do the fishing. Sold the troller & went back to my horse ranch.

But I missed boating. After a bit I purchased a 38 Bayliner. I then sold the ranch so I could spend more time boating. We are now boating four to six month a year.

Maybe you have done this before but if not have a look. Take a tape measure and run it out to your expected health life. For me it is 85. Now put your finger on the tape at your present age. Look at the before & after length of time on the tape. Maybe a rude shock? It really said it all for me as I was in my sixties when I did it.

Love my cruising. Will be doing it till I can no longer get around safely. Maybe even a bit longer if my lady is still healthy?

 

[Painless]

You have to remember that you haven't "lost" the money you paid for the boat. It will be an expense as it is maintained but you can always sell it and get most of your money returned or maybe more in today's crazy market...Go for it!

 

[Mainecoast]

I'm leaving enough for a 3 hour open bar for my remaining friends and family.....