release the nautical masses from nautical terms

[OldDan1943]

Every profession, hobbist, geographic area have "terms" that may be uniqued.
I guess we could say, either we adapt or live a long and difficult life as we hunt for the head.
Who is to say, one term is more correct than another.

 

[backinblue]

I've mostly been just skimming this thread because I use nautical terms out of habit since I was a kid around Mystic and there's no debate or need for justification in my mind, but it seems to me there are at least a couple of very clear reasons to use nautical terms. There's the functional or practical *utility* of nautical terms -- like so many have pointed out with port and starboard -- but then there's also a ton of vocabulary where regular household or residential substitutes just don't work, they're simply not descriptive. My house has walls, the boat has bulkheads. If I called the bulkheads walls, how does anybody know the difference between the hull and the interior "walls?" (I know, somebody raised that one already.) Other than the fact you look through both of them, the portlights on the boat are almost nothing like the windows in my house. The aft deck -- what would I call that area if I didn't call it an aft deck? (Or poop deck, or fantail, or whatever, as we beat to death in a recent thread.) What would I call the anchor windlass, the anchor chain twirly thing? The anchor windey thing? The anchor sucker-upper. What would I call the dinghy, the "little-boat-that-trails-behind-that-we-use-to-get-to-shore?" I could go on but you get the idea.

And then I also think that if this were a sailing forum rather than power (former sailors notwitstanding), we wouldn't even be having this discussion. How do we more efficiently or simply describe the difference between standing rigging and running rigging? Describe a "shroud" in one alternative, non-nautical word. Or any of the sails -- spinnaker = that balloon-lookin' sail in front? Or any sailboat type or configuration -- yawl, ketch, sloop, schooner. Or the phrases used to describe points of sail. Helm = "area with the steering wheel?" Well, unless it has a tiller. Wait, can't use tiller. The galley on the boat is very different than our kitchen at home, and perish the thought of my installing electric macerators in our home "bathrooms." Anybody who thinks we ought to ditch nautical terms, I'd like to see a glossary of the modern substitutes.

Rudder = big flat underwater flap that swings back and forth to change the boat's direction.

Keel = yeah, I have no idea. Bottom edge that runs fore to aft? Oops, can't use fore or aft.

Sponson = what, flotation-outrigger-attached-directly-to-the-hull?

Capstan = round cranking thingie. I guess a furling jib is a sail that sucks itself back in around the -- wait, can't use forestay...

Good job KTH. I don't think anything more needs to be said. I could agree that there are a few terms that are not particulary more useful, but you pointed out a number of good examples they certainly are. Nicely done.

 

[charlesamilton]

according to the book Nautical terms by Lenfesty and Lenfestey "a rope is cordage over 1", when smaller than 1" cordage is usually referred to as line, twine or small stuff. Ropes on ships have names according to their use, such as boltrope,davit rope, breastrope,bellrope and so on.Some of the most specious and arbitrary writing has arisen over the use of rope on sea going vessels. Some writers flatly declare that when cordage comes aboard a vessel it is line unless it is specifically named, as with boltrope, but this bit of mystique was unheard of a hundred years or so ago" say it aint so our verbage has changed over the years!!! Now all you holier than thou purists will have to call a line a rope or a thingystringythingy. I get the point of using nautical terms, it makes perfect sense but as they said in that great film Stripes LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS

 

[psneeld]

No, why should I?

I spend (unless you liveaboard) and have spent a lot more time on the docks and at sea than many (not all).

And I don't have to lighten up as all I am doing is my job, my hobby, my passion and my life. The people I talk to everyday, much of the day are similar...we discuss things and often use nautical terms.

My girlfriend is a horse racer and trainer by expertise and farmer next. No, I don't use that many nautical terms right now, but she is like most people I know....they get there is a lingo and want to learn so I teach her/them.

So... for those that claim to be boaters and don't want to learn and argue...good luck having a prolonged conversation about boating with me. Not trying is to me tantamount to wanting to selectively listen...which I have no time for.

Rough? You bet but after over 30 years of coming to the assistance of boaters...I usually can tell the ones that I will probably never help again (at least for the same reason) and those I will have as repeat customers. And like I said before...it's all about attitude.

 

[Moby Nick]

The Builder of two of my boats, Peter Duff (prior to the avatar we had sailed a Dovekie and a Shearwater) said and wrote more than once that "nautical terms are a very precise and concise language developed over a period of several thousand years and as such is worth preserving".

 

[O C Diver]

I get the point of using nautical terms, it makes perfect sense but as they said in that great film Stripes LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS

Said the member who showed up with no cheese to go along with his wine.

The sad part about this thread is that we're generally pretty easy going here when it comes to nautical nomenclature. We generally try to be inclusive, recognizing that most do this for fun or passion of boating. Most don't blink when someone comments on a bathroom.

Simply, you would probably have been ok with calling it a kitchen, if you hadn't expected us to do the same.

Ted

 

[kthoennes]

Girlfriend is a horse racer? My wife's family is (was) also a horse racing family. Talk about an entire alternate universe of specific vocabulary, everything from horse anatomy to harness rigs to a name for every strap and bit and buckle. Boats have no monopoly on inside vocabulary.

 

[mvweebles]

When someone moves to a foreign country, they are at a severe disadvantage if they don't learn the language. Some of nautical language are terms of mutual understanding and convenience, but not all. Arranging passing agreement ("port to port skipper?") requires knowledge. Starboard tack is stand-on in sailing.

I can't explain all the terms - why, for anchor rode, "rope rode" is correct not a line rode. Why a fender whip and not a bumper rope. All I can say is the English language is full of idiosyncrasies including rode vs road. Clew vs clue. Knot vs not. Seize vs see's vs seas. Bite vs bight. You get the idea.

I don't know if I'm more surprised this thread has gone so long or that I'm responding. All sports and pastimes have nomenclature. Why is this different? Because it's hard to learn? Learn a handful of nautical terms. And while your at it, learn a few knots/hitches/bends and know when to use them. It will make life easier, and save you a few bucks in the process (don't bother with those clever devices to hang bumpers..... Err,,,, fenders)

Peter

 

[Marco Flamingo]

All sports and pastimes have nomenclature.

I once went skiing with a young girl who thought moguls were "mole hills." Better yet was the neighbor kid who had a tennis "whack it." It's easy to see why garbled nomenclature is seen as a sign of inexperience. No need to insult the declarant, but in some situations it is no longer cute.

 

[backinblue]

When someone moves to a foreign country, they are at a severe disadvantage if they don't learn the language. Some of nautical language are terms of mutual understanding and convenience, but not all. Arranging passing agreement ("port to port skipper?") requires knowledge. Starboard tack is stand-on in sailing.

I can't explain all the terms - why, for anchor rode, "rope rode" is correct not a line rode. Why a fender whip and not a bumper rope. All I can say is the English language is full of idiosyncrasies including rode vs road. Clew vs clue. Knot vs not. Seize vs see's vs seas. Bite vs bight. You get the idea.

I don't know if I'm more surprised this thread has gone so long or that I'm responding. All sports and pastimes have nomenclature. Why is this different? Because it's hard to learn? Learn a handful of nautical terms. And while your at it, learn a few knots/hitches/bends and know when to use them. It will make life easier, and save you a few bucks in the process (don't bother with those clever devices to hang bumpers..... Err,,,, fenders)

Peter

Peter, I was right with you up until the last sentence. When we approach a transient marina, my wife is tasked with deploying fenders and getting docklines ready. After trying a couple different devices, I round something that alows her to immediately attach and remove fenders from the rail as well as make infinite small height adjustments. Yes, you could accomplish the same thing with the proper "knot, etc" but it would not be as quick and easy for her, or anyone, no matter how good you are at it. If a device makes it easier and less stressful for her, it's worth it to me even if it's not as "salty".

 

[rslifkin]

Peter, I was right with you up until the last sentence. When we approach a transient marina, my wife is tasked with deploying fenders and getting docklines ready. After trying a couple different devices, I round something that alows her to immediately attach and remove fenders from the rail as well as make infinite small height adjustments adjustments. Yes, you could accomplish the same thing with the proper "knot, etc" but it would not be as quick and easy for her, or anyone, no matter how good you are at it. If a device makes it easier and less stressful for her, it's worth it to me even if it's not as "salty".

We use fender hangers for a similar reason. Easy to get them on/off, only need to adjust if the dock height is significantly different than the last use. Plus, there's one big benefit that I've discovered: they provide a weak link. If a fender gets snagged on something, the hanger will fail before anything else (like a lifeline or stanchion) gets damaged. Then it's just a matter of fishing the fender out of the water and putting on a spare hanger.

 

[backinblue]

The ones I use stay permanently attached to each fender which makes them easier to use than others I've tried. Unfortunately, they don't make them to fit every rail size, but they work for mine.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074CT4MCK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Hippocampus]

Wife is currently enamored by horses. We a friends who we know from motorcycling who have a large horse farm. The lady of the coupe offered to teach us at no charge. However her only requirement was before we could ride we had to learn how to care for the horse, horse handling when not riding, and terminology. As a CIT at a summer camp I helped care for a whole bunch of horses. When older had a girlfriend into dressage and fox hunting. So had some familiarity. But forgot more than I knew over time.
As said above horse people have their own language. First the formal terms. Then their slang. It’s much like sailing in that regard. Same for bikers. Shovel head (hog) airhead (beemer). End of day it’s nearly impossible to learn without knowing the language of that endeavor.
How can you learn the rules of the road without knowing the basic parts of a boat and potential directions of travel. How can learn how to do the evolutions on a boat without knowing the terms your instructor tells you.
So PS’s post is well appreciated. Are you going to be live lumber or a hand? Your choice.

 

[Hippocampus]

Wife is currently enamored by horses. We a friends who we know from motorcycling who have a large horse farm. The lady of the coupe offered to teach us at no charge. However her only requirement was before we could ride we had to learn how to care for the horse, horse handling when not riding, and terminology. As a CIT at a summer camp I helped care for a whole bunch of horses. When older had a girlfriend into dressage and fox hunting. So had some familiarity. But forgot more than I knew over time.
As said above horse people have their own language. First the formal terms. Then their slang. It’s much like sailing in that regard. Same for bikers. Shovel head (hog) airhead (beemer). End of day it’s nearly impossible to learn without knowing the language of that endeavor.
How can you learn the rules of the road without knowing the basic parts of a boat and potential directions of travel. How can learn how to do the evolutions on a boat without knowing the terms your instructor tells you.
So PS’s post is well appreciated. Are you going to be live lumber or a hand? Your choice.

 

[backinblue]

Is "bunch of horses" an equestrian term? Sorry, couldn't resist, just joking.

 

[Art]

Is "bunch of horses..." an equestrian term? Sorry, couldn't resist, just joking.

Asses - is universal! LOL

You can say the ass of a boat, or, the boat's ass - and - I bet nearly everyone would form a picture in their mind. Some pictures would be of the boat... some of the boat's captain!

 

[koliver]

Peter, I was right with you up until the last sentence. When we approach a transient marina, my wife is tasked with deploying fenders and getting docklines ready. After trying a couple different devices, I round something that alows her to immediately attach and remove fenders from the rail as well as make infinite small height adjustments. Yes, you could accomplish the same thing with the proper "knot, etc" but it would not be as quick and easy for her, or anyone, no matter how good you are at it. If a device makes it easier and less stressful for her, it's worth it to me even if it's not as "salty".

I had the same issue with my wife for years. Being a teacher, she expected me to be able to teach her everything she needed to know without pause. Such was not the case, but as soon as she accepted teaching from our then teenage son, she learned easily and ever since (over 20 years) has been able to tie fenders on at the right height, more quickly than our friends who use those fancy hangars.

Aside: what nautical item is a "bumper"? I often hear that word on other boats, but I don't have any on my own.

 

[amapola]

The only necessity is port and starboard as noted in the answers above.

 

[Snug Harbor]

Port and Starboard obviously are important terms as are others. Bathroom vs head, galley vs kitchen? Nobody is going to be confused - call them what you like!

 

[dweller]

Why call it a bathroom if you never take a bath and probably don't even have a bathtub.

 

[Cartouche]

Just wondering if I am the only one that really don't see the necessity of nautical terms. Is it really a sin to call a bathroom a bathroom on a boat? or right and left, or bedroom, and does it make any difference if you call a rope a rope, and a kitchen a kitchen? What is the reason for this lingo? Are we cool cuz we have our own language and are part of a exclusive club that feels it is important to call a wall a bulk head? I am a carpenter by trade and you know what guys that are ashamed of being a carpenter call themselves... a "housewright" I guess having a club with its own clever lingo is fun but is it really necessary?

Totally disrespectful. hope you never have to make sure someone in a panic that has to go to the starboard side of the boat - is the Right side when you are standing at the stern (Blunt end) looking forward or the bow (Pointy end) looking Aft (Backwards) there is a plain reason for every Nautical term and if you don't see that let us all know where you are on the water so we can stay clear. I am sure docking instructions will be great throw the dock rope to the person on the dock, it is much more effective to say pass the Stern Line then the Mid shipline.

 

[Snug Harbor]

What do you call your 1/2 bathroom at home (the one without a bathtub)? You call it a bathroom of course. Seriously, what difference does it make? I happen to use head and galley, but I'm not offended when someone uses bathroom or kitchen...

 

[NCheaven]

Have you told your wife....

....that it's nice to have a cook, someone to clean the house, someone to help you find your keys, etc. Or, do you tell her that you love her? Try the former and let us know how it works out for you, if you can find a pay phone near to the bridge you end up living under.

 

[Sharpseadog]

Just wondering if I am the only one that really don't see the necessity of nautical terms. Is it really a sin to call a bathroom a bathroom on a boat? or right and left, or bedroom, and does it make any difference if you call a rope a rope, and a kitchen a kitchen? What is the reason for this lingo? Are we cool cuz we have our own language and are part of a exclusive club that feels it is important to call a wall a bulk head? I am a carpenter by trade and you know what guys that are ashamed of being a carpenter call themselves... a "housewright" I guess having a club with its own clever lingo is fun but is it really necessary?

IMHO Proper use of nautical terms has many very valuable purposes, not the least of which is that it makes it easy to identify those boaters who are ignorant and inexperienced. I would never charter or entrust a sailboat to anyone who didn't know what a "sheet" was, or a "block", tack, clew or any number of "nautical terms". Same goes for my trawler, but not necessarily the sail specific terms. Such people usually have no proper understanding of navigation rules, proper radio procedures, boat handling, seamanship and other vitalky important knowledge and skill. [emoji848][emoji848]

 

[Nightflyer]

Absolutely, my over and out is a clear example. Poor communications. Over means one thing and out means the opposite. There is a good reason for precise language. And Ted’s point about how serious they are about boating, take the time and expend the effort to learn the language.

I agree with the need for good communication but I’m confused with your over and out comment. Taking on ham/HF OVER implied you stopped talking an d was standing by to receive while OUT implied you had completed your conversation. OVER and OUT means your completed your final comment and the airway was available for some one else.

 

[Nightflyer]

In the US we seem to be very sensitive to racism to the point in the housing listing, We don’t have master bedrooms anymore, it’s the primary bedroom.

We’re not sure how to refer to a transgender, nor are the Olympics… but this is a transitional phase. Terms will be defined over time to

But to boating and trolling multiple lines from outrigger while fishing, it’s common to refer when looking left or right but the boat is referred to as port and starboard.

 

[rpackard]

I have a more serious problem. When I am accompanied by a non boater and I want them to go to the bow I could say "go to the pointy end of the boat". Unfortunately all my boats are double enders and, especially my sailboat, has the same point on the bow as in the stern.

Also sometimes with a newcomer I want to say "please pull the rope that is connected to the horizontal tube which holds the bottom edge of the white cloth triangle." but then I slip up and say "trim the mainsheet please". Argh!!!

 

[EngNate]

Interesting the topics that draw so many replies. I had a boat owner lecture guests on that, insisting it was important for the safety of the boat and all aboard, not just port/stbd (which I understand) but 'head', 'berth', 'galley', 'salon', etc. Just a little overboard I thought. Another insisted no dental floss - apparently some guests did not clean the mirror behind themselves. Yes, left/right is ambiguous, front/bow is close enough. Many boats have more than one head, except for sailboats they are rarely all the way forward, where the term came from. Incidentally, a toilet is a toilet whether on land, sea or air.

 

[Bob M]

I'm sympathetic with at least part of the complaint. For example, "head" is a bit ambiguous, does it mean the toilet or the entire bathroom? I've heard it used both ways. If the eating table is part of the kitchen, is it part of galley or more aptly called the dinette? Is it salon or saloon?


Aft is aft. Forward is forward. Port is port. Starboard is starboard. A galley is a kitchen. A toilet is a toilet. A bathroom is a bathroom. Line = rope.


NOAA and ACE charts show statute miles, not nautical miles. River markers are statute miles. Therefore a mile on the water is a statute mile and should be called that.


Same story with knots per hour. Miles (statute miles) is the norm on charts and the only sensible measure of speed is miles per hour.



Some of the sailor jargon makes sense and some of it doesn't.

 

[Hook and a screw]

Not sure all the salties on here know the difference between “roundly” and “ handsomely” so in truth there is a mishmash of terms and it’s more vernacular than nautical. Real ships that I sailed on used left/right between the navigator/pilot and commanding officer when on the bridge rather than part/stbd to prevent confusion of bridge communication with orders for helmsman. Jargon is often referred to as word vomit and is used to exclude outsiders as the OP commented on but in many instances correct terminology does promote effective communication.