Wooden Boats

[deancrenshaw55]

I am new to wooden boats, I've had a few fiberglass boats so I know their general maintenance. I am thinking about buying a 1952 47' Chris Craft that is wooden. I'm wanting to know how often i take it out of the water for maintenance. And how often do I caulk it. Their is a patch on the front where it looks like it has hit the dock. It looks sturdy but should I be concerned.

 

[Tidahapah]

Dean,
Rule of thumb is to haul the boat at least every 12 months to clean the bottom and check for worms (if you are in a worm prone area)
Light wet sand and a coat of antifoul. ( after nearly 20 years of owning and building timber boat I have found the best antifoul for warmer water is International Copper Coat Extra)
If the caulking is in good condition Then only the putty will require a little attention in a few places each haul out.
One can go the way of rakeing out the seams ( getting all the putty out) cleaning them up prime them with sika primer and sika flex a big job but sometimes well worth it.
I have sikaflexed the 2 waterline seams on my own boat and have not had to touch them for over 10 years.

There is also a soft epoxy that can be used on the seams, I am not familar with it myself but it is supposed to be very good.
Cheers
Benn

PS get a VG wooden boat surveyor to check the boat before purchase, it will be money well spent.

 

[Scary]

Reality Check

What would be your reason for owning this boat? Older wooden pleasure boats are not for the feint of heart, or the for that mater people with limited resources. The cost of refastening the hull would cost close to $20,000 in screws alone. If YOU ARE IN LOVE WITH THE BEAUTY OF THIS BOAT AND HAVE THE MONEY TO POUR INTO A CLASSIC WOODY , THEN GO FOR IT. If not run as fast as you can. Many older wood boats end up as abandoned projects, cut up and scraped because owners get in way over their heads and can't finish the project. The repairs often exceed the value of the boat in pristine condition. The ideal berth for a wooden boat is in a covered berth resting in salt water in a cool climate. What appears to be a small amount of damage can and often is extensive. A little dry rot here and there can and probably will cost thousands to repair. If the boat is berthed in the sun and weather, you will not be able to keep up with the ongoing maintenance without help. If you were given this boat for free, and it needed to be refastened and had some structural problems you could spend more money and time restoring it to safe operating condition that it would be worth. A wooden Chris of that age will have been refastened at least once maybe twice. The frames will look like pin cushions and the bottom planks may not except more screws. You could end up rebuilding the entire bottom, keel, deadwood, frames, planks and all. If you decide to move forward with this boat you need to have a survey done by a marine surveyor who has extensive experience with wooden ChrisCrafts.

 

[markpierce]

Starting nearly from scratch. Undoubtedly, this minimalistic sailboat (Bird-class sloop) will take a six-digit dollar figure to restore. Some wealthy person believes it worthwhile.

 

[Phil Fill]

Restoring an old classic boat is not about value but the enjoyment and selve pride. Its like restoring old cars/housing/whatever. It becomes a passion part of your life. We bought the Eagle based on a good deal/value, but we learned/understood we bought a limited number one of a kind boat to a point time/money was not so important.

I agree that a person that buys a older classic need to have the cash flow and/or the time. However if repair/remodel are prioritized, not take on to much, a liile at a time and budget accordingly. Its more a matter of the heart, not the mind.

 

[CPseudonym]

Phil, that is a great sentiment but if ya ain't got deep enough pockets on a boat like that Chris Craft and she ain't got good bones to start with run away. They are beautiful when someone else owns them and pays for the upkeep.

 

[Phil Fill]

Phil, that is a great sentiment but if ya ain't got deep enough pockets on a boat like that Chris Craft and she ain't got good bones to start with run away. They are beautiful when someone else owns them and pays for the upkeep.

That is true, which the individual has to find out and make a decision/commitment. My folks and family thought we are crazy, and still do. However we bought the boat for other reasons beside boating. So there maybe other primary factors/reasons for what others might think is crazy.

 

[Hendo78]

Phil, that is a great sentiment but if ya ain't got deep enough pockets on a boat like that Chris Craft and she ain't got good bones to start with run away. They are beautiful when someone else owns them and pays for the upkeep.

Meh. Just rip in to it and replace if needed. :-D

 

[Hendo78]

Mate do what you want. Don't ask a forum to make a decision for ya!

Everyone has their options (like I am now) but this is all smoke on the water. No pun intended.

I'm rebuilding a 1958 timber boat as we speak. Well not right now cause I'm typing this but you get my drift lol :-D

Most people think I'm nuts but do I or should I care about that? I mean, there are some wooden boats I wouldn't touch but some I wouldn't hesitate but I have a supportive wife that shares my vision. Passionate, yes. Crazy, not so much.

Don't do it to sell. Do it cause you want to do it and enjoy it.

I've not built a boat before and I'm having a cracker of a time. Sure there's moments i sit back and go WTF am I doing but they pass as quickly as they come.

Ask questions and use google.

I have learnt the best way is to set little goals. If I look at the job as a while it'll do my head in so I look at little jobs collectively to make the big picture

As for this $20k for hull screws, not sure if that's gold plated screws or they are talking about screwing off a Titanic timber replica or not but ive not spent a anywhere near that and my boat is now a 40 footer. The use of standard 316 stainless steel screws will be fine. You can also use silicone bronze if you like but ss screws properly applied and sealed with epoxy will be fine

Like I said earlier. It's your choice, do what you want and if you go ahead with it, post pics. We all love pics :-D

Anyway that's my 2c

Cheers
Hendo

 

[deancrenshaw55]

Dean,
Rule of thumb is to haul the boat at least every 12 months to clean the bottom and check for worms (if you are in a worm prone area)
Light wet sand and a coat of antifoul. ( after nearly 20 years of owning and building timber boat I have found the best antifoul for warmer water is International Copper Coat Extra)
If the caulking is in good condition Then only the putty will require a little attention in a few places each haul out.
One can go the way of rakeing out the seams ( getting all the putty out) cleaning them up prime them with sika primer and sika flex a big job but sometimes well worth it.
I have sikaflexed the 2 waterline seams on my own boat and have not had to touch them for over 10 years.

There is also a soft epoxy that can be used on the seams, I am not familar with it myself but it is supposed to be very good.
Cheers
Benn

PS get a VG wooden boat surveyor to check the boat before purchase, it will be money well spent.

Thank you for all your advice

 

[deancrenshaw55]

Mate do what you want. Don't ask a forum to make a decision for ya!

Everyone has their options (like I am now) but this is all smoke on the water. No pun intended.

I'm rebuilding a 1958 timber boat as we speak. Well not right now cause I'm typing this but you get my drift lol :-D

Most people think I'm nuts but do I or should I care about that? I mean, there are some wooden boats I wouldn't touch but some I wouldn't hesitate but I have a supportive wife that shares my vision. Passionate, yes. Crazy, not so much.

Don't do it to sell. Do it cause you want to do it and enjoy it.

I've not built a boat before and I'm having a cracker of a time. Sure there's moments i sit back and go WTF am I doing but they pass as quickly as they come.

Ask questions and use google.

I have learnt the best way is to set little goals. If I look at the job as a while it'll do my head in so I look at little jobs collectively to make the big picture

As for this $20k for hull screws, not sure if that's gold plated screws or they are talking about screwing off a Titanic timber replica or not but ive not spent a anywhere near that and my boat is now a 40 footer. The use of standard 316 stainless steel screws will be fine. You can also use silicone bronze if you like but ss screws properly applied and sealed with epoxy will be fine

Like I said earlier. It's your choice, do what you want and if you go ahead with it, post pics. We all love pics :-D

Anyway that's my 2c

Cheers
Hendo

For it to be a 1952, it's says it has been refastened in 1994. How much longer till it should be refastened again?

 

[psneeld]

1. If you are asking these questions then you either need to have lot's of money and the best wood boat guy in your region...

or

2. Stay in very shallow water or tied to the dock till you can recite rebuilding a wooden boat in your sleep....

I spent a lot of my Coast Guard career involved with the sinking of wooden boats....restoring and caring for a wooden boat can be rewarding...but costly and/or time consuming if you want it to be truly "seaworthy".

 

[Hendo78]

For it to be a 1952, it's says it has been refastened in 1994. How much longer till it should be refastened again?

How long is a piece of string?

Take some out and look for any crevice corrosion etc.

iPad Forum Runner

 

[deancrenshaw55]

Honestly I don't really know what refastning is, I know what caulking is and how to do that, but that's about it

 

[psneeld]

Start small then with a wooden boat....or just slather the crap out of it with a couple layers of glass if you find the right deal and love the interior to keep it reasonably water tight....

But if you don't know what refastening is...you might try space travel before seriously considering wooden boats.

 

[Delta_JimS]

Very well put Psneeld.

Dean, no one here is insulting your intelligence, making fun, or belittling you. It is just becoming very obvious that you are in Way over your head.

I love wood boats, but bought a glass tub because I figured out very quickly there was no way I could keep up with a woody.
My compromise, though maybe not wise, was to get a fiberglass with lots of Teak.

Suggest you do about 40 hours of study on wood boats and some serious soul searching before you put money down on a wood boat.(even if its free)

 

[Scary]

Picture this

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/im-about-start-project-older-chriscraft-6833.html Look through this post to get an idea of what refastening might look like. We are now at $30,000 in silicon bronze fasteners. This project is going to cost close to $90,000. I have seen $140,000 spent on refastening on 50ft wooden boats. Refastening is generally replacing, adding to existing screws that have failed due to electrolysis. The screws fail as the zink leaves the bronze leaving a very week porous copper screw that crumbles on removal. The wood adjacent to the screws is damaged as well so you generally have to replace with larger longer screws. Stainless is not an excepted alternative as an under water fastener in wood.

 

[FF]

Stainless is not an excepted alternative as an under water fastener in wood.

MONEL is.

 

[RickB]

We are now at $30,000 in silicon bronze fasteners.

Silicon bronze is promoted by the manufacturers because it is easier and cheaper to manufacture fasteners with it. The silicon is there to make machining easier, not to make your application work better or last longer.

Aluminum bronze contains virtually no zinc, especially compared to SiBrz and is a far better material for underwater marine fasteners. For the number of screws you are looking at, contact one of the fastener manufacturers and get a quote for the amount you need.

 

[Tidahapah]

Now if it is a timber boat (planked) one would be copper nailing and clinching them or roveing them.
No point in screwing into old ribs, at least if they are clinched they will come up tight and if the ribs are that sick then the boat will have to be sister ribed , ah bugger build a new boat.
Benn

 

[QB]

Suggest you do about 40 hours of study on wood boats and some serious soul searching before you put money down on a wood boat.(even if its free)

Wooden Boat magazine and forum.woodenboat.com would be good sources.

To start, try this thread:

Tell Me Why I Should or Should Not Buy A Wood Boat

--QB

 

[dhmeissner]

Honestly I don't really know what refastning is, I know what caulking is and how to do that, but that's about it

Hi Dean,

Not sure where you are. There are a few great resources in the PNW for wooden boats. http://cwb.org/ is one, and Home of the Wooden Boat Foundation and the Wooden Boat Festival - Port Townsend, WA is another. I believe ChristCrafts are carvel planked boats and were made with quality materials. However it's all about how the previous owner kept up on the maintenance. If she was refastened in '94, well that is almost 20 years ago now. And it depends on where and who the shipwright was that did the work.

I had a wooden boat surveyed 2 years ago that was "refastened" but it turns out the surveyor found a mix of both bronze and stainless fasteners, a big no-no.

So whatever you do, have it surveyed by a reputable guy with experience in WOOD boats.

This started out as a small job and is now $60K and will likely exceed that figure:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/...oject-older-chriscraft-6833-5.html#post126303

So, you know what oakum is?

Good luck!

 

[BruceK]

For wooden boat lovers, there is a 1974 woodie GB Alaskan 49, twin Lehmans, for auction here. Yachts & Boats for Sale in Australia & New Zealand | Yachthub, 41-50ft section. What a great looking boat!

 

[Tidahapah]

Yeah Bruce I went and had a look at that boat. It was recently up in Mooloolaba for a refit at Lawries.
I also saw whilst searching a very nice 42 Grand banks with a single 6LXB Gardner.
It says fitted from new so may be one of the ones built for local consumption many years ago by Riveria.
Benn

 

[dwhatty]

Some nice wooden (and composite) boats in this online magazine:

Classic Yacht Magazine

We went to the launching of BEQUIA but just missed a sail on her.

Also looks like next issue will have an article on Grand Banks.

 

[Nomad Willy]

THANK YOU DAVID!
For the Classic Yacht Magazine link.

Two perfect examples of boats that are clearly "slicers" are on page #39. The Matthews Sedan and the 40' Custom Express. I do think this is what Mark had in mind when he coined the expression "slicer".

Don (Moonstruck) may want to see page 92.

 

[Pirogue]

I read all the horror warnings on boat forums about never, ever, never, never buy a wooden boat - never. Still... like a zombie drawn to living flesh... I kept getting pulled back to those gorgeous classic boats that have been completely restored. I don't mean a project boat by a weekend hero - but completely restored by skilled wood boat craftsmen and all the work done. Let's assume I found a boat that had been restored properly... meticulous records of the restoration... pictures... well known respected yard did the client work... and let's further assume a survey would confirm the work was exemplary.

Sooooo.... would the routine and scheduled maintenance really be that much more than the same exact boat with a fiberglass hull? I realize there can be a lot of exterior varnish on some of these boats and that can be a real chore and expense - but if selected for a minimum of exterior varnished wood and the hull was properly refastened/refitted when restored, etc. ... then what kind of extra expense are we talking about? Anyone with actual wood boat experience care to comment on costs? It sounds like wood hull planks explode when the 4th wavelet laps upon them, killing all on board, as the owner's wallet simultaneously combusts in flames.

And no, I'm not looking for someone to reaffirm any preconceived ideas I may have - as I don't have any - and want the truth. But seems a lot of restored boats out there that have the "dirty" work done ... but maybe I'm way off base... wouldn't be the first time. Thanks.

 

[Marin]

Sooooo.... would the routine and scheduled maintenance really be that much more than the same exact boat with a fiberglass hull?

I've never owned a wood cruiser and never will although I really like the classics and PNW utility and commercial fishing boats. But we have a lot of wood on and in our 1973 fiberglass cruiser, and I know folks who have wood boats, so I've formed some opinions based on observation.

When you say routine and scheduled maintenance, if you mean of the engines and other operating systems in the boat, no I don't think there is much or any difference between similar types and sizes of wood and glass boats.

However, unless the boat is in a boathouse the effort to maintain the exterior of a wood boat requires, in my opinion, a lot more time and effort (or money) than a comparable glass boat IF you want to keep it in that "restored to perfection" condition.

The climate will have an influence on keeping up a wood boat that's out in the weather year round. But paint and brightwork require more maintenance effort than gelcoat and polished stainless steel.

In my opinion, if one wants a nice wood boat and wants to spend no more time on exterior maintenance than the owners of fiberglass boats, a boathouse is virtually mandatory.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. P. Welcome aboard.

 

[psneeld]

I read all the horror warnings on boat forums about never, ever, never, never buy a wooden boat - never. Still... like a zombie drawn to living flesh... I kept getting pulled back to those gorgeous classic boats that have been completely restored. I don't mean a project boat by a weekend hero - but completely restored by skilled wood boat craftsmen and all the work done. Let's assume I found a boat that had been restored properly... meticulous records of the restoration... pictures... well known respected yard did the client work... and let's further assume a survey would confirm the work was exemplary.

Sooooo.... would the routine and scheduled maintenance really be that much more than the same exact boat with a fiberglass hull? I realize there can be a lot of exterior varnish on some of these boats and that can be a real chore and expense - but if selected for a minimum of exterior varnished wood and the hull was properly refastened/refitted when restored, etc. ... then what kind of extra expense are we talking about? Anyone with actual wood boat experience care to comment on costs? It sounds like wood hull planks explode when the 4th wavelet laps upon them, killing all on board, as the owner's wallet simultaneously combusts in flames.

And no, I'm not looking for someone to reaffirm any preconceived ideas I may have - as I don't have any - and want the truth. But seems a lot of restored boats out there that have the "dirty" work done ... but maybe I'm way off base... wouldn't be the first time. Thanks.

Most of the horror stories are true...but that doesn't mean every wood boat would be a mistake.

The first clue that a wooden boat has been truly restored and kept to the best condition possible within reason is the price tag will stagger almost anyone...not without good reason though. If the price seems reasonable...I doubt the recency and extent of the restoration. Only a few escape this reality.

Yes.... the hull alone has maintenance that can't be overlooked....actually more checking than maintenance....but letting the hull get away from you is why most would never own one.

If not said before....you can keep a wood boat looking good and afloat is one thing....cruising it hard in open water is another....

There are more than a few "well, it depends" when it comes to boat ownership...and to me never more true than with a wooden boat.