release the nautical masses from nautical terms

[Art]

Is a brick trowel still called a brick trowel when flipping burgers?

I'd then call that a "Burger-Trowel"!

 

[Efftea]

I'd then call that a "Burger-Trowel"!

No such thing as a brick trowel.... Builders use large burger trowels to lay bricks.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
What about his and hers trowels. EH?

 

[Art]

Greetings,
What about his and hers trowels. EH?

Somewhat back on topic...

So which is considered more male or more female... port or starboard??

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Peter B]

Personally I prefer salon over saloon... cause... I don't drink alcohol and there are usually more women than men in a salon than a saloon... Pretty and fixed-up sober girls that is! LOL

Art, sorry, but salon just doesn't cover it. In a salon, there is little argument that the goings on in one are pretty much beauty/personal care related, and certainly not related primarily to sitting, eating or drinking - chatting yes, I'll give you that - plenty of chat goes on. That about covers it..?

Whereas the reason saloon is the more correct is because it caters for all the above. Chatting, sitting, eating and drinking - also reading, snoozing, and just watchin' the birds go by. Birds Art - as in not female humans, ok..?

And, coming back to the OP's topic, that's why it is called a saloon, and not the dining room, or sitting room, or even day room, chat room or lounge. Because it has to cater for all of those activities. Hence the passing similarity to the hotel saloon I guess.

 

[Art]

Art, sorry, but salon just doesn't cover it. In a salon, there is little argument that the goings on in one are pretty much beauty/personal care related, and certainly not related primarily to sitting, eating or drinking - chatting yes, I'll give you that - plenty of chat goes on. That about covers it..?

Whereas the reason saloon is the more correct is because it caters for all the above. Chatting, sitting, eating and drinking - also reading, snoozing, and just watchin' the birds go by. Birds Art - as in not female humans, ok..?

And, coming back to the OP's topic, that's why it is called a saloon, and not the dining room, or sitting room, or even day room, chat room or lounge. Because it has to cater for all of those activities. Hence the passing similarity to the hotel saloon I guess.

Peter, Peter, Peter! I designed, built, owned and ran a TRUE Saloon early 1970's in the state of Maine. Clientele were lobster men, ocean fishermen, woodsmen and construction workers... with plenty of gals often mixed in. Rock n' roll bands often on our stage. Due to town board not allowing it to be named "The Hunt-Her"... as you will see on news paper ads on sides of the first photo... she opened named "The Hunter". Building was an old garment factory my partner and I arranged a lease option purchase contract on and completely gutted it and renovated it. We built everything; tables, bar, chairs, walk in cooler, small kitchen, big game room etc. It was a great money making fun business early in my adult life! Sooo... I can knowingly say - The Main Room in a boat surely is NOT a Saloon! LOL

PS: I'm the light blond; others in the photos have died. The photo with shaven head is me - 20 years later... 1992.

Photos straighten up when I punch em up.

 

[Peter B]

Nah...sorry Art. Your description of your saloon was just that - your saloon. A larger than life version of a normal saloon, especially a boat's saloon for sure, but still within the definition, and much closer than to a salon, just sayin'...

 

[rslifkin]

I feel like saloon vs salon may be a regional thing. Growing up boating on Long Island Sound, I never heard it called anything other than a salon.

 

[Bacchus]

I feel like saloon vs salon may be a regional thing. Growing up boating on Long Island Sound, I never heard it called anything other than a salon.

However... just because you hear it doesn't make it correct!
How many times have you heard lubbers refer to BUMPERS?

 

[Art]

I feel like saloon vs salon may be a regional thing. Growing up boating on Long Island Sound, I never heard it called anything other than a salon.

There ya go - a regional thang!! I was brought up boating on LI South Shore. That room of the boat was always called a salon... never a saloon!

 

[backinblue]

Same here. Never heard of a saloon on a boat, although in the BVI, this may qualify!

The Legendary Floating Bar and Restaurant | The Willy T | William Thorton

 

[Art]

Nah...sorry Art. Your description of your saloon was just that - your saloon. A larger than life version of a normal saloon, especially a boat's saloon for sure, but still within the definition, and much closer than to a salon, just sayin'...

When you were in my saloon... The Hunter... you could call it anything you liked; long as you paid for your drinks!

Interesting little tidbit: There were some fishermen from Gloucester Mass that would come up to The Hunter in summer when their fishing boat was in at port. Two of them were a real kick. They'd come in and hand us a few $100 bills each, then say: "Let us know when that's gone - we're gonna get squashed"!

Those guys were funny as hell. Lucky for them we had places upstairs they could sleep it off!

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Head? I refer you to the ultimate guide to the use of the ENGLISH language, the OED!


"...meaning "toilet" is from 1748, based on location of crew toilet in the bow (or head) of a ship."


Toilet? Here's almost 2 pages of the origins and usage: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=toilet


Of particular amusement, to me at least, is the archaic description of toilet paper as "arse-wisp" and "bum-fodder".


It seems "salon" is yet another American corruption of the Queen's English, the correct word being saloon. I have posted the OED corroboration of the correct term several times already.


A bientot....

 

[Art]

Greetings,
Head? I refer you to the ultimate guide to the use of the ENGLISH language, the OED!


"...meaning "toilet" is from 1748, based on location of crew toilet in the bow (or head) of a ship."


Toilet? Here's almost 2 pages of the origins and usage: https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=toilet


Of particular amusement, to me at least, is the archaic description of toilet paper as "arse-wisp" and "bum-fodder".


It seems "salon" is yet another American corruption of the Queen's English, the correct word being saloon. I have posted the OED corroboration of the correct term several times already.


A bientot....

How soon??

 

[SteveK]

There ya go - a regional thang!! I was brought up boating on LI South Shore. That room of the boat was always called a salon... never a saloon!

YaButt it was spelled saloon, It was that drawl of speech that made it sound like salon

 

[Steve DAntonio]

From "Origins of Sea Terms", "Salon, a modern corruption of the word saloon, a term which should stay ashore"

Need any more be said?

None of these references even include the word salon...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes, Saloon. That’s where I drink on my boat.

 

[backinblue]

Yes, Saloon. That’s where I drink on my boat.

I guess most of my boat is a saloon then!

 

[grahamdouglass]

I thought a list of nautical terms might help

https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/vie...99336005.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199336005-e-48

 

[backinblue]

https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/vie...99336005.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199336005-e-48

Nice list but doesn't help the salon saloon debate. I see some ads by major US brokers and builders refer to salons, not sure I usually see saloon in a listing.

 

[psneeld]

Probably won't see it either...

In the USA, the forked tounge mentality of condemn alcohol in public and drink like a fish in secret... keeps advertising alcohol and related stuff in the closet.

 

[JWellington]

A lot of the old jargon continuing is just snobbishness. And if somebody assumes when they hear....port...that the guy is facing the front of the boat......they might also assume tne same if he says.....left. If they say bathroom, they dont mean anyplace else.

 

[psneeld]

Snobbishness? Using port and starboard as examples.....

One more post of your lack of experience in boating....and being called a troll.

 

[backinblue]

A lot of the old jargon continuing is just snobbishness. And if somebody assumes when they hear....port...that the guy is facing the front of the boat......they might also assume tne same if he says.....left. If they say bathroom, they dont mean anyplace else.

Poor example. The point of port & starboard is when you say or hear those terms, it's irrelevant which way a person is facing. Port & starboard are NOT another way of saying left & right. Not sure why I even bother....

 

[Art]

A lot of the old jargon continuing is just snobbishness. And if somebody assumes when they hear....port...that the guy is facing the front of the boat......they might also assume tne same if he says.....left. If they say bathroom, they dont mean anyplace else.

Sorry JW... you are incorrect.

Every trade, sport, professional position etc... has its own specific "vocabulary".

Mason, carpenter, electrician, plumber, roofer - all have important to their trades' words

Football, soccer, baseball, tennis - all have important to their sports' words

CEO, CFO, CDO - all have important to their positions' words

God Forbid - Operating doctors and nurses forget their "special words" [item nomenclature] during heart transplant!!!

In similarity marine jargon [specific words with specific meanings] are actually very important too.

 

[JWellington]

Snobbishness? Using port and starboard as examples.....

One more post of your lack of experience in boating....and being called a troll.

Scenario: one of the gursts on your boat says port, the other ...left, and you wont know what the second guy could mean? One asks where the bathroom is, and you wont understand them??????

 

[JWellington]

Sorry JW... you are incorrect.

Every trade, sport, professional position etc... has its own specific "vocabulary".

Mason, carpenter, electrician, plumber, roofer - all have important to their trades' words

Football, soccer, baseball, tennis - all have important to their sports' words

CEO, CFO, CDO - all have important to their positions' words

God Forbid - Operating doctors and nurses forget their "special words" [item nomenclature] during heart transplant!!!

In similarity marine jargon [specific words with specific meanings] are actually very important too.

I argue most jargon not too important. Not a big deal if somebody says bathroom, or kictchen or wall. And Ive seen plenty of guys who couldnt get their admiras to use old jargon.

 

[Art]

I argue most jargon not too important. Not a big deal if somebody says bathroom, or kictchen or wall. And Ive seen plenty of guys who couldnt get their admiras to use old jargon.

Sorry JW...you are incorrect. As I clearly show in post 295... the correct vocabulary for any specialty is the correct way to function. Vocabularies per specialty are specifically for that specialty!

Marine life i.e., boating... be it commercial or pleasure, Navy or CG or Police or tow service are included in this range of "specialty". That's why ins cos do not insure those who know nothing about this specialty! Only people who do not wish to know marine vocabulary and don't really care to know how to act in marine environments circumvent the use and application of correct marine terms/vocabulary.

 

[Hook and a screw]

The use, or lack thereof, of jargon isn’t critical most of the time. Some things have only one name and isn’t jargon, ie port and stbd but others aren’t so critical. The jargon in use today would be very different from the jargon in common use on the water 50 years ago. It could be argued many modern vessels lack a keel but we would all agree where the vessel keels is the keel even if it lacks a true keel.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say the 32ft guy single handing isn’t going to be as fanatical as the admiral wannabe with radar, sonar, ais and five MFD’s.

No disrespect to anyone but this is a hurricane on a pond.

 

[psneeld]

Scenario: one of the gursts on your boat says port, the other ...left, and you wont know what the second guy could mean? One asks where the bathroom is, and you wont understand them??????

Luckily my guests are good people who get and respect me and are smart enough to learn port and starboard quickly so there is not that problem.

Sitting at the dock with lubbers like yourself...sure, they can say/ use whatever terms they want and of course I understand being smart enough to understand both common English language and nautical terminology. Because boating to me is a hobby, not a pastime,

Notice how I use the term lubber (landlubber) when I refer to someone who I don't think fits the term mariner or similar.